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'Banana republic' warning if Trump gets go-ahead



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Published Date: 03 June 2008
By David Maddox
SCOTLAND risks having a planning system like that a "banana republic" if Donald Trump's application for a golf resort gets the go-ahead, it was claimed last night.
The warning came from Martin Ford, the councillor deposed as an Aberdeenshire committee chairman for using his casting vote to refuse Trump's application.

He was speaking in the second in a series of ScotsmanDebates. Last night's event, in Aber
deen City Council's Town House headquarters, was chaired by The Scotsman Executive Editor Bill Jamieson.

It included a distinguished panel featuring Mr Ford and Anne McCall, head of planning at the RSPB, north-east journalist Andrew Jones, First Group director of property Jayne MacLennan and rural development expert Professor Ken Thomson.

They were debating whether the application for the Menie Estate, currently in ministers' hands, showed an imbalance in favour of economic development over environmental factors.

Anne McCall warned that approval of the Trump plans would send out the wrong message to "developers who have spent a lot of time and money trying to come up with positive solutions for environmental issues".

Jayne MacLellan said planning was weighted too far in favour of the environment.

For a full report of the meeting, read tomorrow's The Scotsman.

WHAT NEXT?

The Scotsman has cemented its position at the heart of debate by announcing a series of events across Scotland to examine the big topics on a public stage.

Next debate:
ISLANDS
24 June, 7pm
Q Do Scotland's islands have a viable economic future?
Sgoil Lionacleit, Benbecula

For tickets, email scotsmandebates@scotsman.com or write to David Lee, ScotsmanDebates, The Scotsman, 108 Holyrood Road, Edinburgh, EH8 8AS. Please state how many tickets you want (maximum two per applicant) and for which debate(s).







The full article contains 294 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

,

03/06/2008 05:05:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
2

Snuffy Ivy,

Aberdeen 03/06/2008 06:10:11
I seriously doubt if Mr. Ford has ever seen a banana.
He most probably holds the view that a Banana Republic is a chimpanzee enclosure at Edinburgh zoo.
His expertise is more probably in the department of sour grapes.
3

Beth Boyle,

NY 03/06/2008 06:13:25
I can hardly believe anyone in Scotland wants anything to do with Trump. It's very strange. No developer from Scotland would ever be allowed to put in such a housing development yet Aberdeenshire would let this modern day berserker rape its coast? It is insane anyone even entertains the idea of letting this buffoon develop a coastal area of Scotland. I am truly shocked this issue is still alive.
4

Ubi,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 06:35:29
Mr Ford should be well aware that the arcane, guidelines based system of planning in the UK has fostered banana republic like planning awards for decades.

Planning considerations have regularly been subordinated to perceived economic benefit. If he needs precedent he can consider the approval by Aberdeen City Council in 2002 of an application to build a football stadium in greenbelt. The then head of planning recommended approval on economic grounds, principally that it might help attract Euro 2008 to Scotland and Ireland. (The application was withdrawn when the tournament was awarded to the Austro-Swiss bid.)
5

Itchy,

03/06/2008 06:48:38
Mr Ford is just another lefty who hates rich people. He is what is wrong with Scotland.
6

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 03/06/2008 07:03:07
Trump will have Ford & Stour for breakfast. They are holding the NE back.

Beth Boyle doesn't get it does she? THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE HERE THINK THE DEVELOPMENT IS A GREAT IDEA & WANT TO WELCOME TRUMP.
7

Patrick O'Reilly,

Coatbridge 03/06/2008 07:04:21
We're bought and sold for American gold. Such a parcel of rogues in a nation.
8

Beth Boyle,

NY 03/06/2008 07:10:23
Richard you will eat your words within five years.
9

Auld Holburn,

Aberdeen 03/06/2008 07:35:47
#8 - Quite what will we see to eat our words in a few years ? The sand will stop shifting ? I think I can probably live with that in all honesty.

Aberdeen as a city is going downhill so fast it's unbelievable. Once the oil goes we're going to become one big ghetto.
OK, so outwith providing some local jobs, buying some local produce and making the airport and taxis busier the Trump development as a whole will not benifit the vast majority of people in Aberdeen, but, it can be the start.
More visitors will surely compel the half witted incompetents that run the city to start trying to think of ways to get them out of their golf complex and start spending their tourist money in other places.
It might mean that the police will start to try and enforce some law and order in Union Street, and I'm not talking Friday and Saturday nights here, I'm meaning getting the junkies and drunks off of the streets at lunch times.
Attracting foriegn investors is the only way forward.

If the green brigade can show me how some sand dunes that nobody ever visits or benifits from can save a city from going belly up in years to come then I may change my mind
10

W Smith,

Middle East 03/06/2008 07:41:56
"It included a DISTINGUISHED PANEL featuring MR Ford.."

Stop right there.

Are the journalists at The Scotsman taking drugs?

In a funny sort of way Mr Ford has proved Scotland is already a Banana Republic.

The fact that he can be part of a 'distinguished panel' proves it.

BTW
At least two mulsims own around 58,000 acres between them with very little opposition from Mr Ford or loony Dennis 'let me walk around in your garden cos your rich' Canavan.

1) One of the muslims, with 25,000 acres, is a member of the Dubai royal family and his gamekeeper is taking him to court.

2) Mr Al Fayad is the other muslim who owns 33,000 acres and likes to call Prince Philip a nazi. That could explain why he's liked in certain quarters in Scotland.

Maybe the anti-Trump crowd can tell the rest of us how many jobs these muslim landlords have brought to Scotland?

More than Trump is going to create?
11

Am Balach,

Isle of Skye 03/06/2008 07:52:36
It's just staggering the mess that Aberdeen is in. The only city in the UK that hasn't used architecure to promote urban regeneration.

A superb beach and they have allowed the most appalling buildings on the prime sites along the prom. A complete disgrace.

Union Street should be the second greatest city street in Scotlad after Princes Street but is a national embarrassment with charity shops and junkies, choking traffic disgusting pubs.

Castlegate has the worst paving I have ever seen which prevents the elderly going near the place. An utter shambles.

There hasn't been a building of decent architectural quality build in the city since the Victorian Times.

What is it about the people of Aberdeen that they have allowed this to happen? Don't they care? They are the richest city in Scotland and have nothing to show for it apart from expensive cars and lots of prostitutes.

Their councillors have demonstrated they don't have the intelligence to take any planning decisions for the benefit of the north east. Thank goodness the Trump application has been called in. People who acually care about the built and natural environment of Scotland will now be able to make the final decision.
12

Scotland to prosper...,

03/06/2008 08:12:39
It's pretty simple, sand dunes don't make money..

On a more serious note, Scotland must be seen to embrace international business opportunities and foreign investment. So Trump isn’t a nice guy, so what? He’s hardly going to be working in the hotel reception is he?

It says a lot that Ireland are ready to pounce on the opportunity presented by Trump if it’s turned down by us.
13

,

03/06/2008 08:40:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
14

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 03/06/2008 09:29:49
Tree Huggers, Bird Spotters, and the lovers of piles of sand in the North East of Scotland can all go to hell.

The councillors and charity workers do not have to care about the economy of the NE most of them are more recent settlers living off pensions in their latter years. The youth do not have that luxury. They must make do with the options available. Work or Poverty.

It is very simple we have lots and lots and lots and lots of environmentally significant areas through out the Highlands and North East but we have very little development.

The development will go ahead as progress eventually always wins,
15

Beth Boyle,

NY 03/06/2008 09:50:27
"Progress" that is a funny word for exploitation.
16

Walter Ego,

Durness 03/06/2008 09:52:15
By all means prostitute yourselves but do not prostitute our country.
17

Beth Boyle,

NY 03/06/2008 10:06:29
Scotland does not have all the ugly things that America has ev everywhere. No horrible lighted signs and developments sprawling all over the best land. If you lived here you would not welcome the likes of Donald Trump. I would not wish him even on the French.

Had ye seen wha I hae seen
Ye wad-na be sae cantie-O
18

Saoghal Beag,

03/06/2008 10:09:56
All that trump needs do is modify the layout to avoid the sssi, doable, reasonable. why should the law be any different for him?

however distatasteful the overall development will be. Brigadoon meets Trumpsville...that's progress? If the folk of aberdeen want it let them have it.
19

Beth Boyle,

NY 03/06/2008 10:15:42
That is about it, Saoghal Beag
20

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 11:00:36
Well done Martin Ford, spot on.
In answer to W smith 10. What does anything you have said on your post have to do with this? Or is it just a tactic to muddy the waters a bit?
People should visit the Trump website to see the plans, I think they would be appalled. And they should be appalled by the way that this has been handled by some of the press and some politicians. They didn't agree with Ford, so they chucked as much muck at him as they could and basically tried to spitroast him in public. I'm glad to see his gutsy stance.
21

Embra Don,

03/06/2008 11:12:01
A few miles south of the proposed development there is a toxic waste tip among the dunes which is now allowing un-contained waste, including drilling mud, to leach out under the beach and into the sea. Perhaps the efforts of the environmental lobby would be better directed in calling to account the authority who allowed this to happen and the perpetrators who must be required to clean it up.
22

Buttress,

03/06/2008 11:49:15
Possibly the efforts of the 'environmental lobby' should encompass all threats to the environment?

This one certainly is. Or do we abandon law and planning policy and protection of sites when rich people are involved?

One law for the rich, one for the rest of us?



23

Logie Almond,

03/06/2008 13:16:02
They were bought and sold for Yankee gold
What a parcel of rogues in a nation.

Or in an SNP administration.
24

Ken Mare,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 13:42:54
#18 makes the most sense of all the postings/rantings here.

PS How many golf courses does a country need?! There must be well over 600 in the country already.
25

,

03/06/2008 13:49:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
26

Nomada,

03/06/2008 14:01:19
I think there are things other than investors that Neil #25 will have more trouble finding in North Korea, Burma or Zimbabwe - like democracy - and one thing he will certainly find there is a system of planning consent that relies on maximising personal benefit to officials at every level in the process.
27

Nomada,

03/06/2008 14:03:18
Gosh! - #25 has gone already and I missed the offensive bit that got him censored!
28

Nomada,

03/06/2008 16:46:43
Clarry #28 asks me 'What would you know about democracy?' The answer, Clarry dear, is very simple. A lot more than you know about rare plants, SSSIs, dunes, shifting sands, civility and the English language.

Now why don't you go and lie down for an hour and get over it?
29

Saoghal Beag,

03/06/2008 17:06:17
Beth, you're dead gallus by the way.
30

Beth Boyle,

NY 03/06/2008 17:50:25
Thank you S.B.
31

Nomada,

03/06/2008 19:40:17
If your comment at #36 is directed at me, Clarry, and is related to the removed posts above, I can assure you that I have never reported any postings on the Trumptown issue in this or any other thread. I would far rather have the world *see* the rubbish you and others like you write on this topic, and let you all be judged on it.
32

Legacy,

NE 03/06/2008 22:25:37
Surprised anyone wants to share the same room with Martin Ford!
33

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 04/06/2008 01:24:26
Nomada

The last time we talked I asked you a few questions. One was about the economy, remember?

Q - How will the refusal of the Trump application benefit the Scottish economy?
A - I don't know and I don't care. What I do care about is that this is decided in accordance with law and policy, whichever way it goes.

Now I'll ask you the other question again.

Q - How does the Geomorphology at Menie benefit mankind, the NE, or Scotland?

You failed to answer the last time yet you sited this as an important consideration.

Pray tell.

34

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 04/06/2008 01:36:14
"BANANA REPUBLIC"

A carefully considered soundbite from a councillor with a new image destined for greater things. Aberdeen South MP? Watch out Anne Begg.

However, in describing Scotland's planning system, nothing could be further from the truth. We have a problem in Scotland with major planning applications, and this extends to sustainable developments as well. Thinking about the Western Isles and Clashindarroch windfarms, there is a real resistance to environmental change all over Scotland especially in rural areas. If we want to be on a level economic growth playing-field with the rest of the UK, we need to catch up and major developments are a large part of this.

SO NO COUNCILLOR FORD, NOT A BANANA REPUBLIC. MORE LIKE A CLOSED SHOP.
35

Nomada,

04/06/2008 06:58:54
Andrew #41 - you asked the questions, you got the answers. Now read the answers (all the words, not just those you want to see).

As to 'how does the Geomorphology at Menie benefit mankind, the NE, or Scotland?', why not ask Alex Salmond and his sidekick Swinney? The SSSI designation and its place in the Nature Conservation Act and Planning Policy is supported and enforced ultimately by them. I don't designate SSSIs. And your question, as I said before, is irrelevant.
36

Buttress,

04/06/2008 08:36:35
What Martin Ford actually said:

'The committee's decision was made for good planning reasons. The planning system exists to ensure private individuals and groups can develop their land and make money but also is there to strike a balance and make sure that other elements, such as the environment, are properly protected. We are in danger of looking as though we are planning for some kind of banana republic, where somebody can get what they want simply because of who they are.'
37

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 04/06/2008 21:48:37
44 Nomada

That is the answer you gave in full. It's still on the other thread. Why do you try to make on it's not?

And you see, you still can't answer me about Geomorphology because I don't believe you know anything. This is the most relevant question because the RSPB have confirmed that there is little birdlife at Menie. So do you know or not?


38

Beardy,

Menie 05/06/2008 15:11:58
I struggle to believe that anyone can actually believe some of the drivel that is written here. The majority of people in the Aberdeen and Shire area who have looked at the facts have no wish to see a disney gothic style theme park dumped on a Site of Special Scientific Interest. Clarry; to answer your strange and meaningless ramble the SSSI at Menie is one based on Soil Sciences not Flora or Fauna, the wildlife and plant life are intrinsic to it but not the cause of the SSSI (although they might be were it to be re evaluated) The sand moving over the area you want to see desecrated feeds the national nature reserve at Forvie up the coast, no sand = no national nature reserve. As for the oil running out, yes that will happen in anything from fourteen to forty years time. not tomorrow so please stop bleating and learn the facts first so you don't make such a fool of yourself in the future. Read the book "Blinded by the Bling??" it shows both sides of the argument and leaves no doubt that there is no value to Scotland in this housing development on protected land.
39

Nomada,

06/06/2008 09:01:19
Beardy #49 - Clarry is impervious to any sort of reason on this issue (she is not the only one!). I have been telling her for months about the interests of the SSSI, but you might as well talk to a pile of planks. At least she now seems to accept that there *is* an SSSI there, after being in denial for a long time.
40

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 06/06/2008 21:59:41
Beardy

"The majority of people in the Aberdeen and Shire area who have looked at the facts have no wish to see a disney gothic style theme park dumped on a Site of Special Scientific Interest".

I can see that you have looked closely at the facts before coming up with this nonsense of a statement. Perhaps we should dump another dump on Menie and continue the trend from a couple of miles south. Or perhaps we should ALL go and visit Menie as suggested by Cllr Ford, tramp over the dunes and really ruin the sand for all the important soil scientists.

"Gothic Theme Park". Sounds like 'Tower of Terror' at Disneyworld. What are you talking about?

You try to take the high ground in a debate you've only just entered and fall flat on your face with stupid comments like these.
41

Over the rainbow,

somewhere 08/06/2008 01:12:24

The shifting sands do not support the nature reserve at Forvie. Unless the sands are shifting over a river.
Immpossible. The Forvie nature reserve is on the other side of the river mouth.

The SSSI at Menie is by default, the report only covers rare fauna which cannot be found to move. It was only when this development was instigated that suddenly this SSSI became so important.
42

scottish person,

paisley 10/06/2008 05:35:48
Beth Boyle, you are ridiculous. You would not even wish Trump on the French, what kind of posting is that.You are a racist.
43

weebirdey,

elderslie 10/06/2008 18:42:43
Can i ask how many people actively visit these SSSI areas in aberdeen and how much they benefit, support and have an impact upon lives ? Yes the enviornment is important but does it really support society like the economy ??

 

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