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RBS shareholders approve bank bail-out plan



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Published Date: 20 November 2008
Shareholders in Royal Bank of Scotland approved a £20 billion bail-out plan today which could put nearly 60% of the company in public hands.
At a general meeting of the RBS Group in Edinburgh, shareholders voted 99.28% in favour of the proposal, which will see the bank offer £15 billion in new ordinary shares, with the Government promising to buy up
any remaining.

The Government has also committed to buying £5 billion in preference shares which RBS will buy back in time.

Royal Bank of Scotland – one of the worst hit by the banking turmoil – is bolstering its finances by offering the shares.

The company's outgoing chairman Sir Tom McKillop and chief executive Sir Fred Goodwin, who steps down today, both apologised to shareholders for the situation the company had found itself in.

Sir Tom said: "A new chapter in the RBS story must now begin."
A full strategic review of the company under the helm of new chief executive Stephen Hester begins tomorrow.

Today he conceded that job losses were expected, but pledged to bring a "sense of optimism" to the company.

Existing shareholders have until Tuesday to take up the offer, but because shares are trading well below the 65.5p offer price investors are likely to snub them.

This leaves the taxpayer – currently sitting on a paper loss of around £5 billion on the new shares – with a potential 58% stake.

Today's meeting took place at the Assembly Hall on The Mound in the Scottish capital.

Addressing shareholders, Sir Tom said they faced "unprecedented" challenges as an institution, a country and part of the world financial system.

"I, as chairman of RBS group, both personally and in the office I hold, am profoundly sorry about the position we have reached," he said.

"I feel this sincerely, on a number of levels and for a variety of reasons, but I want to highlight just a few.

"I am sorry about the very real financial and therefore human cost that those who have invested in us now feel and recognise how seriously this has impacted shareholder confidence in our RBS.

"And I am also sorry if any of our customers have suffered anxiety as a result of the situation."

Sir Tom, who retires as chairman next year, added: "The buck stops with me as chairman and with the leadership of the group.

"Accountability has been allocated and fully accepted."

In response to a request from a shareholder that he personally apologise, Sir Fred told shareholders: "I am extremely sorry that this has come about."

Royal Bank of Scotland chief says: I'm so sorry

The full article contains 443 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Ike,

Glasgow 20/11/2008 17:43:57
Ahem:
Johnston Press plc distinguished publishers of The Scotsman:
Share price Jan 08 = 275p
Share price today = 6p
= a 98%+ drop in value.
Let's all just work for the government and spy on each other!
2

sm753,

20/11/2008 18:19:47

"Shareholders in Royal Bank of Scotland approved a £20 billion bail-out plan today which could put nearly 60% of the company in public hands."

Hmm.

Market cap today = £7bn.

State holding = £20bn = 20 / (20 + 7) = 74% (!!!)

I think the "nearly 60%" comes in from the "state share of votes" = 15 / (20 + 7) = 56%.

Accuracy never hurts.
3

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 18:47:31
Smee, 2, your ability to perform your party piece always ceases to astound me.
4

Union is ­Best,

20/11/2008 18:51:26
2. Union dividend included?
5

Churchill W.,

20/11/2008 19:10:25
Onion is ­Best # 4 Finely Chopped, Then Fried

The "Union dividend" is worth £20,000,000,000 of UK taxpayers cash and has saved the RBS from the folly of its highest executives, oh, and from going bust. You, with your petty mind, might not like it, but, nobody cares what you like.
Salmond will not like the fact either, that the UK government saved RBS. Salmond would rather the bank had failed so he could have made made petty "Union dividend" type jibes, like you above. But, now he can't; Salmond you can't.

6

sm753,

20/11/2008 19:10:52

The inability of a supposedly "quality national" paper to include simple sums never ceases to astound me.
7

Martyk,

20/11/2008 19:12:24
A day of utter shame for Scotland.
8

,

20/11/2008 19:22:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
9

Roseblue,

London 20/11/2008 19:24:28
#7 I agree the English would like to let the Scottish have there Independence as England over the last few years have become quite passionate about thereselves and things have changed. For Scotland to lose it's only Banks to London seems a backward step it seems that Mr Brown does not want Scotland to have her freedom.
10

Rufus T. Firefly,

20/11/2008 19:28:45
#2 SM753

I dont like saying this but i think you are wrong!
11

Union is ­Best,

20/11/2008 19:30:03
5. Churchill

just a good thing that Westminster wasn't in charge of financial regulation of banks, or people (mostly paranoid Nats) would laugh at your post.

We in the pro Union camp, like you and me, know that predictions of financial collapse based on indpendence are best left to us, and actual financial collapse
in the Union is purely circumstantial and meaningless.

Anyone who compares our worst case scare of a Scottish deficit post independence (you know the one, £5000 tax bill, £4 billion deficit) agaibnst the actual deficit of the UK now is just meddling in reality.

You and I will have no part of that!
12

Union is ­Best,

20/11/2008 19:31:10
10. Rufus old bean, nice work with the other monikers, think you hve managed to shake off the image you had acquired of an obsessive poster! Well done!

Lets get stuck into them1
13

Union is ­Best,

20/11/2008 19:31:11
10. Rufus old bean, nice work with the other monikers, think you hve managed to shake off the image you had acquired of an obsessive poster! Well done!

Lets get stuck into them1
14

,

20/11/2008 19:38:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
15

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 20/11/2008 19:39:53
Story in the Telegraph today says that The UK has the biggest deficit since records began in 1933. That's quite an achievement.
16

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 19:41:16
Smee@6.

Your inability to observe the daily share trading values from opening to closing and the fact that you can quibble wibble over .2% between the report being published and your posting shows that you are merely posturing on this small stage.
17

,

20/11/2008 19:41:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

Rufus T. Firefly,

20/11/2008 19:42:16
SM753

Market Cap does not come into it.

I believe it works like this.

For every 13 shares in existence 18 new ones are being issued. Now assuming no one buys them and the Government hoovers them up, that means they will hold 18 shares out of every 31.

((18/31)*100) =58%

Do you agree?

Market cap does not matter.
19

Churchill W.,

20/11/2008 19:42:22
Union is ­Best/Mckellerator/Ayrshire Scot + +

You are not in the Union camp, you are just camp.
I agree that you nutty Natz do not have much to laugh at these days. No sneering jibes from Salmond, the Scottish banks saved by the UK Prime Minister and the UK taxpayers. No prospect of the Scottish banks ending up the hands of more "canny" Scottish bankers. No prospect of the Scottish banks bankrolling the SNP.

Salmond is supposedly some kind of economist? Why with his intimate knowledge of the Scottish banking sector was he not warning the Scottish people of the reckless Scottish banking policies and the potential consequences to the Scottish electorate borrowing beyond their means to repay.
Was Salmond scared of criticising Scottish bankers, or, did he just not know, or, care?
I know just know you are going to say Gordon Brown twisted everybodies collective arm into borrowing beyond their means to repay.
20

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 20/11/2008 19:44:17
Ernst and Young comment on ''the shocking state of the public finances, with borrowing rising alarmingly''.

21

Rufus T. Firefly,

20/11/2008 19:44:31
#13 Union, what other monikers? Which story are they on?
22

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 20/11/2008 19:46:18
''Had the government been more disciplined when times were good it would have room for manoeuvre now that we are entering recession. Higher taxes and/or lower spending are certain''
23

Observer. 1,

20/11/2008 19:47:57
''The government's £43 billion projected borrowing is now so far out of reach for the treasury that Mr Darling is expected to rip up these projections''
24

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 20/11/2008 19:49:17
17 - yes you are right. It is not being called ''the perfect storm'' for nothing is it.

Thanks Labour.
25

Churchill W.,

20/11/2008 19:56:52
Rufus T. Firefly # 21

He is the one with the multiple logons, always has been.

The Spook and I went to the Department of Lingusitcs at Heriot Watt University a few days ago and fed his, supposed, posts in their wonderful linguistics programme. Lo and behold, Union is Best has at least a dozen logons, including the ones identified at # 19 above. He/she is the biggest phony posting here. Even the Spook was astounded at the duplicity and he is not easily astounded.

Union is Best is hacked off that the salvation of the Scottish banking sector, by the UK government and taxpayers, is all but complete. He cannot stand it and neither can his boss, Salmond. Only a very sick person would want the Edinburgh banking base to fail, for political reasons and thousands of people lose their jobs, but, Salmond is one of those people.
26

Rufus T. Firefly,

20/11/2008 19:59:06
The state holding is not £20 billion.

Maybe thats what it cost them but its not the current value. If you are comparing with the current market cap then you must use the current market value.

There are 22,909,776,276 new shares. Multiply that by 46 pence and you get about £10.5 billion.

So £10.5 billion compared to £7 billion is approx 60% that the Government holds.
27

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 19:59:53
18, Rufus. You forgot to mention what the government's %age would be if the share price rises prior to the purchase.
28

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 20:03:33
"Only a very sick person would want the Edinburgh banking base to fail, for political reasons and thousands of people lose their jobs, but, Salmond is one of those people."

Your quote, Churchill W. @25. What about Broon and Darling?
29

Rufus T. Firefly,

20/11/2008 20:04:17
churchill who else is he?

Aberdeenshire Scot?
Ayrshire Scot?
Kyle the Carrot?
We are Responsible for ourselves?
Oscar?
McKellerator?
Wes Mantooth?

Etc etc etc
30

Rufus T. Firefly,

20/11/2008 20:10:01
27 Jock.

Share price is irrelevant. Once the new shares hit the market
The Government will hold 18 out of every 31 which is 58%.

Thats assuming of course share price does not rise above 65.5 pence and then the public snaps them all up.
31

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 20:11:10
Rufus T Firefly
Smee
Churchill W

Right hand jobs.
32

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 20:14:07
30, Rufus. Existing shareholders and RBS staff are snapping them up now on the open market - before next Thursday.

Do try to keep up to date.

33

blackley,

Edinburgh 20/11/2008 20:16:39
Nowhere do I see the word "Thanks" to the government and taxpayers for saving the bank!
34

Churchill W.,

20/11/2008 20:17:17
Jock Tamson # 28

I agree with you, Prime Minister Brown and his esteemed Chancellor should be congratuluted for saving the Scottish banking system from the stupidity of those charged with operating the banks.

Rufus # 29

You find the same attitude with criminals when they get caught. They always say, "but, so and so was doing it too." You will notice that Union is Best has not denied all these other logons/monnikers. Neither has he denied that Salmond would much rather see the failure of the Edinburgh based abnking system than for it to be rescued as it has been, by the UK Government. That speaks volumes about the SNPs attitude. They would rather see thousands of banking employees unemployed so that they could be recruited to the SNP cause, than see the banks saved. I just cannot believe Salmond's cavalier attitude in this.
I see he has gone sick today too. I hope he gets well soon.
35

Churchill W.,

20/11/2008 20:21:11
blackley # 33

You will never see any thanks from the SNP, or, their supporters, the world owes them a living.
Tonight, they are crying into their single malts blaming Gordon Brown PM and the UK government for saving the Scottish banks!
36

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 20/11/2008 20:23:22
John Gieve the deputy governot of the Bank Of Enagland has said ''despite measures taken in the last few months the outlook for 2009 is bleak. We are only in the early stages of a recession so we must be ready to take further action''. (From The Herald)

Given that Brown & Darling have borrowed so much the public finances have the biggest deficit sice records began, that could prove difficult.
37

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 20:23:42
33, blackley, why should anyone say thanks to the buck stop terminus?

34, Churchill. Oh yes! Noddy dug, personified.
38

Union is ­Best,

20/11/2008 20:28:33
25. Rufus/ Churchill/ Master etc

cut down on the chat between yourself, it looks suss. Is ok to post the odd one to yourself, a bolstering reply or a gufaw at your own joke, but don't chat amongst yourself, word from the wise, we need to maintain our credibility on here.


19/25 - Chuchy/ Rufus - stop mentioning the collapse of the Scottish banks! We Unionists said this would happebn with independence. We look foolish now it happens under our dividend so to speak! Is a re-run of Scottish steel (will collapse with indendence!), fishing (will be decimated by independence!), Distillers (will leave after independence!), Britoil (UK ownded, will be scorched after independence!)

We really must think up some horror apocalypse indepedence story that hasn't come true in the Union!!
39

Union is ­Best,

20/11/2008 20:30:40
19/25 Wait, Rufy/ Churchy!

What about we say a £5000 tax bill for every Scot with independence?

Whats that? You say the cost of current UK borrowing will be more than that?

OK, back to drawing board! Hows about we say that British Gas will sack all its Scottish admin staff if Scotland becomes independent?
40

Churchill W.,

20/11/2008 20:32:23
Jock Tamson # 37

Should Gordon Brown PM have ignored the plight of the Edinburgh based Scottish banking sector? I can tell that you are an SNP patriot and that you would have preferred for the sector to fail, like Salmond wanted.

That "Noddy dug" dig will get lots of laughs, with the happy SNP crowd, down the pub tonight. I haven't recoverd yet myself! I bet the pubs down your way can't wait for the big spending SNP "crowd" to turn up and save the day!
41

Rufus T. Firefly,

20/11/2008 20:32:41
#32 Jock, where did you read that?
42

Union is ­Best,

20/11/2008 20:35:24
40. Good job Gordon Brown wasn't responsible for the Scottish based banking sector, I can tell you, or the Nats will be all over us!

Thank goodness banking regulation was devolved in 1999, and that Scotland has its own central bank, otherwise some Nat will say the Uk government actually has some part in creating this mess!!
43

Rufus T. Firefly,

20/11/2008 20:35:46
jock where is the evidence that existing shareholders and bank staff are buying these shares?

You making this up as usual?
44

Union is ­Best,

20/11/2008 20:36:23
40. Chruchy/ rufus

great post! I hope no one remembers reports of Labour MPs punching the air at news of HBOS problems!

45

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 20/11/2008 20:37:51
From an article in the Economist about global bank bail outs, it appears that in the US the Treasury will own it's ''stake'' directly, but will use outside managers to advise it. The Dutch finance ministry will hold on to it's own investments and manage them directly. Elsewhere in Europe most governments plan to create arms-length agencies to manage their stakes.(Which I said the Government should be doing ages ago).

Labour appear to be doing what ? Just giving Banks the money and then asking nicely if they will please be good boys and girls and lend businesses the money the need to survive.

Not very impressive is it.
46

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 20:40:42
40, Churchill. Keep on nodding.

41, Rufus. Why do you assume that everything has to be read somewhere? You give yourself away.

47

sm753,

20/11/2008 20:41:49


RTF

I think the share price / market cap does matter.

I refer you to
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/statement_chx_131008.htm

" 42. For RBS, the Government will take up to £15bn of ordinary shares and £5bn of preference shares.

43. This potentially represents a 63 per cent interest in the bank – in return for which the Government will appoint three independent board members. "

That was as of Monday 13 October, with RBS having closed at 71.7 on Friday 10.

The govt offer of £15 + 5bn hasn't changed; the only thing that has changed is the share price is down to 46p, with the market cap shrunk accordingly.

Do the sums and you'll see that 63% relative to shares at 71.7p lines up pretty closely with 74% relative to shares at 46p. The 56/58% number likewise lines up with the state share of voting shares (as opposed to total equity).

Think your 18/31 calculation may just be a fortuitous match...
48

sm753,

20/11/2008 20:43:35
44 UIB

You're actually a benefits scrounging toilet cleaner, aren't you.
49

Churchill W.,

20/11/2008 20:44:59
Union is ­Best # 38

The question is, what would your illustrious master Salmond have done about the Scottish banking crisis if he had been left to his own devices? What about Dubai, would they have given him the money? Maybe, but what would he have given away?
The answer is, Salmond had no response to the Edinburgh based, Scottish banking crisis. Left to Salmond the crisis would have become crises.
I am delighted at the fact that you want to take a pop at me personally as it emphasises the paucity of the arguments of your illustrious leader Salmond. Salmond, who would rather pose with a blown-up SUN newspaper photograph of Maradona than attend to the issues confronting Edinburgh based Scottish banking. This shows that Salmond is frivolous and a poseur, not fit, or, able to deal with serious matters. Salmond should stick to opening the odd bridge or so.
50

Union is ­Best,

20/11/2008 20:45:42
48. AM2, tut tut, no one will buy a second hand car or a website from a loyalist in Hamilton with that attitude.

What have i told you? We must be friendly, and not chat amongst ourselves on here!

Avanti the Union! And thank the lord that team GB/UK do not regulate banking the UK or someone will thin the UK government has created this mess!
51

Union is ­Best,

20/11/2008 20:47:44
49. Good lord, and well done, what masterful gibberish and distraction!

I abhor Salmond and he stands for!

I just am grateful that regulation of banking in the Uk was not the responsibility of the UK government for the past 300 years, otherwise our silly swipes at the SNP devolved exec will look irrelevant in this matter!

Avanti the Union!
52

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 20:47:52
Rufus, may I start a q &a session with you?

I shall commence.
Q. What happens to unwanted shares which are sold on the stock market, thereby bringing the share price down?
53

sm753,

20/11/2008 20:47:56
32

"30, Rufus. Existing shareholders and RBS staff are snapping them up now on the open market - before next Thursday."

Are they? Is that wise?

The govt isn't going to buy any existing shares at 65.5 - only to mop up any remaining (i.e. probably all) of the new ones at that price. How that washes out for existing shareholders is still uncertain, surely.
54

Churchill W.,

20/11/2008 20:48:36
Jock Tamson # 46

What is your point? Are you just a provacateur?
55

sm753,

20/11/2008 20:53:06
49

"Salmond should stick to opening the odd bridge or so."

Apparently Smuggo caught a cold opening that bridge yesterday and has had to have a few days off sick.

No-one told him you could open a bridge without flinging yourself off the parapet.

Reports of a minor tsunami in the Upper Forth, followed by a rash of sightings of a beached whale, have been denied by his press office.
56

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 20:53:24
Smee@53. Could you please feel free to join Rufus in my Q&A @52?
57

Union is ­Best,

20/11/2008 20:54:24
55. LOL. Nice one! That has settled the UK governments involvement in banking regulation once and for all, Andy!
58

Union is ­Best,

20/11/2008 20:55:32
56. Jock

LOL. We Unionists do not answer or question! We sneer, deny and smear. And swerve! Snicker!

59

,

20/11/2008 20:56:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
60

Union is ­Best,

20/11/2008 20:59:41
59. good grief, Andy, why loyalty to the Crown and good queen Bess low?

I really would have thought you at least would have raised a glass to Windsor and bankruptcy with me, not had a hissy fit?

61

Rufus T. Firefly,

20/11/2008 21:00:32
sm753 I need to digest your figures later once I am on my PC.

I did not include preference shares in my calculation as I do not believe they confer voting rights and therefore do not constitute ownership of the company. I need to double check that mind you.

Also, preference shares wont exist in 2 to 5 years as they will have been bought back by the bank and disolved. The other new shares will always exist however.
62

sm753,

20/11/2008 21:02:23
56

I'll think about it if you answer my 53.
63

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 21:02:32
Come on now, Smee and Rufus, you are failing your Q&A test. Or are you still Googling?

In case you 2(?) have forgotten, the question was, "What happens to unwanted shares which are sold on the stock market, thereby bringing the share price down?"
64

Union is ­Best,

20/11/2008 21:03:12
59. Churchy/Andy/Rufus

oh lord, one has spat ones wee dummy? It is far better we Unionists remain calm, loyal to the crown, and try to shift blame! After all, it is not like Westminster controls banking regulation in the UK - far more likley the SNP caused all this!

Avanti the Union
65

Rufus T. Firefly,

20/11/2008 21:03:26
52 Jock that question does not make sense. Can you clarify please?
66

sm753,

20/11/2008 21:05:11
61

"I did not include preference shares in my calculation as I do not believe they confer voting rights and therefore do not constitute ownership of the company. I need to double check that mind you."

AFAIK, they do confer ownership but not voting rights. But again AFAIK, it ultimately depends on an individual company's memo & articles.
67

Union is ­Best,

20/11/2008 21:05:25
59. Would you but a second hand VW car from Gordon Brown? I would!
68

Rufus T. Firefly,

20/11/2008 21:06:30
63 Jock, do you mean in general or are you talking about royal bank? Do you mean the shares that the existing royal bank shareholders (like me) dont want?
69

sm753,

20/11/2008 21:06:57
RTF / Churchill

UIB is a twot (and I suspect posting as "benefit scrounging toilet cleaner" elsewhere) and best treated with a policy of "total ignoral".
70

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 21:07:09
Feel a Jeremy (Tam) Paxman moment coming on.
71

sm753,

20/11/2008 21:07:48
63

"What happens to unwanted shares which are sold on the stock market, thereby bringing the share price down?"

If they're sold, then they get bought by someone else.
72

Union is ­Best,

20/11/2008 21:10:17
69. Andy, lol, dear old loyal chap, why all the posts to me if you ignoring a fellow crown loyalist and second hand car dealer?

Good grief, any Nat reading your splenetic output may think you disoriented, fragmented and confused.

Do pull your union jack socks up old bean, and join with me in denying any responsibility by Westminster for banking regulation in Scotland or the UK for the past 300 years!
73

Rufus T. Firefly,

20/11/2008 21:11:04
#66 will recheck your calcs later.
74

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 21:11:12
Rufus. Do you only pretend to set yourself a low standard but fail to meet it?

You do all your sums on a freebie calculator, don't you?
75

Union is ­Best,

20/11/2008 21:12:07
73. No need, just pass the calculator, I will do it when you in the toilet! Avanti the Union and loyal team work!
76

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 21:15:07
Smee and Rufus are now reduced to bumbling idiots by one simple question.

Them twa require a database of journalists to keep them going.
77

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 21:17:45
75, UiB. I play goalkeeper in the toilet - like to keep a clean sheet.
78

Rufus T. Firefly,

20/11/2008 21:18:22
#74 Jock your question does not make sense. Thats not my problem.

You are the idiot that thinks shareholders and staff are buying up the shares. Do keep up.
79

Churchill W.,

20/11/2008 21:18:26
Union is ­Best has exposed himself again.
He is nothing but a sectarian provocateur and must be disdained. His post at # 50 has uncovered his sectarian agenda, there is no place in Scottish society for people with such extreme views.
80

Union is ­Best,

20/11/2008 21:21:52
79. Oh lord, what a chuckle! But word from the wise, we Unionist must keep our synthetic hysteria in check! After all, anyone reading this will compare your reaction to the death of 800,000 Iraqis, 10 p tax abolition, 5000 post office closures and see your frenetic, hysterical and shrill chuntering about poost 50 and think you perhaps a self-obsessed oddity?

Avanti the Union, Churchy, and let is Unite and deny the UK government ever regulated any UK banks!
81

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 21:23:42
71, Smee. If they are sold and somebody else buys them then why does the price drop?

Is it not more accurate to assume that unwanted shares have to be bought back by the issuer?
82

Churchill W.,

20/11/2008 21:25:28
Jock Tamson # 76

Is that the new collective noun for a gang of journalists; "database of journalists"?

Not bad, I wonder will it coalesce in the collective psyche?
83

Union is ­Best,

20/11/2008 21:26:22
79. Hey Chruchy, by the way that car you sold me broke down. I hope the web site you designing for me ("Hysterical diversionary Unionists are us, the Uk never regulated banks . dot.com) dont do likewise?

We need to stick it to the Nats! After all, must have been the SNP who designed the 1982, 1989 and 1997 UK banking regulations?

84

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 21:28:11
Rufus@78. Leave the 1 liners to Groucho. Ever tried being a character from Barcelona in a hotel in Torquay?

Or you could answer my question.

Can you still remember it? Que?
85

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 21:30:52
Oh yes, Churchill@82.

Spur of the moment thought. Prefer a gaggle of journalists fighting over a database.
86

SkeptikScot,

20/11/2008 21:31:15
I don't want to be pedantic but ... isn't there an error here? I believe this article (and some others) are confusing voting rights and ownership. Assuming that the UK government "invest" £20 billion in RBS I estimate that the bank will effectively be three-quarters nationalised. Basically the UK now has another state bank.

87

Churchill W.,

20/11/2008 21:32:09
Union is ­Best # 80

What God do you appeal to? I think it will take more than prayers to expiate your latest slip of the mask.

Why do you think that Salmond wanted the Scottish banks to fail? A straight answer will do. I am sure most people observing here will have had enough of your equivocations, diversions and sectarian provocations. If you will not answer then slope off.
88

Rufus T. Firefly,

20/11/2008 21:32:57
The shares go to the Underwriters. In this case the government.
89

SkeptikScot,

20/11/2008 21:33:12
#86 Ooops, ignore my previous comment - others have got there before me!
90

Union is ­Best,

20/11/2008 21:33:31
79. Churchy/ Rufus/ Dear loyal Andy

I off - It is shameful all your spelectic hitting of report unsuitable button hasn't shifted post 50? We Unionists need to splutter and squeal more effectively.

Keep denying the UK ever regulated UK banks in my absence, and keep swapping monikers with rufus, don't want anyone thinking we all just the same obsessed sad sad! Avanti the Union!
91

sm753,

20/11/2008 21:41:08
81

"71, Smee. If they are sold and somebody else buys them then why does the price drop?"

Because at any instant there is a range of offers to buy and sell shares at various prices. The system matches those orders up and "the price" emerges as the weighted average.

(I'm sure I've glossed over various technicalities like quote-driven vs. order-driven.)

"Is it not more accurate to assume that unwanted shares have to be bought back by the issuer?"

Only happens when someone is trying to flog new shares at a price wildly different from what the market is willing to pay. Happened to one of the BP flotations, IIRC.

As would happen to RBS if it is issuing at 65.5 and the market price stays around 46 - govt is underwriting so would end up with the lot.
92

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 21:41:32
88, Rufus. The government doesn't buy until next Thursday. The share issue in RBS is being undone by people buying on the free market.

Rufus. What happens to the shares which are not affected by any underwritten share issue?

Could you please answer the question or haud yer wheesht?
93

Churchill W.,

20/11/2008 21:42:08
Union is ­Best # 90

I haven't reported your post # 50, why would I? Report it yourself now that you are embarrassed by it.
I feel for your embarrassment, most reasonable people would following making such an unreasonable statement. You now know how those BNP members that were outed feel; like a pariah. Enjoy it, you worked hard for it!
94

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 21:48:29
Smee@91. Are you in a pact with Rufus?

Just answer the question.

Have you forgotten it?

I shall rephrase it to make it simple for you.

A company sells a share and someone buys it. Someone sells it. Nobody buys it. Where does it go?

Answer, please.
95

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 21:56:23
Oh yes@93. How broad minded of you to report some satire.
96

Churchill W.,

20/11/2008 21:57:52
Jock Tamson # 94

If your house was worth £200,000 a year ago and you sell it now for £150,000, where has the other £50k gone?
97

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 21:59:55
"Oh yes@93. How broad minded of you to report some satire."

Please read instead;

"Oh yes@93. How broad minded of you not to report some satire."
98

sm753,

20/11/2008 22:00:38
94

"A company sells a share and someone buys it. Someone sells it. Nobody buys it. Where does it go?"

Do you realise this makes no sense?

Read my 91 again.
99

Churchill W.,

20/11/2008 22:01:56
Jock Tamson # 95

You are a moron. UIBs post at 50 is still there, so, it stands to reason that it has not been reported. Let's face it, any reasonable moderator here would delete it for its obvious sectarian content and irrelevance to the report above. It does not mention banks or £20 Billion, so, it has a much relevance as your self-seeking drivel.
100

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 22:02:36
Oh yes, 96. The other 50 grand has gone back to the market forces. Where does my unwanted share go?
101

Churchill W.,

20/11/2008 22:07:07
sm753, # 98

You cannot educate pork in the finer points of canny Scottish banking. I just wonder why he would make statements that he knows to be untrue. UIB is getting itself confused trying to post under so many different identities. UIB has still not answered the question as to why Salmond wants to see Scottish banks fail, even though Salmond must agree, that without the intervention of the UK government and the cash from UK taxpayers, they would have failed.
102

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/11/2008 22:08:40
Oh yes @99. Should I report you for calling me a moron?

Get a grip, get a life and broaden your mind.

Btw. I wpuldn't even consider reporting you for your bile. I want everyone to see it.
103

Churchill W.,