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One rule for Lloyds, one for everyone else, signals Darling



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Published Date: 19 November 2008
ALISTAIR Darling yesterday effectively slammed the door on a rival bid to keep HBOS an independent bank, when he set tough conditions on any alternative rescue deal.
The Chancellor made it clear that the Treasury would not match its offer to buy shares in a stand-alone bank at the same rate as that for the takeover by Lloyds TSB.

In a statement to parliament, he effectively set the bar higher for alternatives to the takeover. He said there was "no automatic right of access" to the government's financial rescue package, which was only open to "credible" senior management teams with clear funding and a sustainable business plan.

The move was interpreted as a slap-down to the efforts of two of Scotland's leading financiers, Sir George Mathewson and Sir Peter Burt, to come up with an alternative.

Last night, Sir Peter said that the Chancellor's move, on the eve of today's vote by Lloyds TSB shareholders on the proposed takeover, made an alternative bid "effectively improbable".

He said the statement was "regrettable", as he and Sir George had been making good progress in raising £500 million – the gap between the £11.5 billion of new capital offered to HBOS by the Treasury, and the £12 billion its board said was needed to keep it independently afloat.

Sir Peter told The Scotsman: "For those seeking to keep HBOS independent, it (the Treasury] has raised every hurdle it could find to the highest possible level. Although ostensibly leaving the decision to shareholders, the barriers to any alternative proposal are now so great as to make any such proposal effectively improbable.

"It is particularly sad as we were making good progress, and were on course to raise at least the difference between the £11.5 billion and the £12 billion needed to keep HBOS independent.

"Although we are still looking at other options, it appears likely that the takeover, with the consequent loss of jobs and the anti-competitive aspects noted by the Office of Fair Trading, will come to pass unnecessarily. But what the government is determined to get, it has the power to ensure it gets."

Jim Spowart, another prominent businessman who had attempted to engineer an alternative rescue, was also furious. He said: "If George Mathewson and Peter Burt do put another offer in, that offer will be at a disadvantage to Lloyds TSB. How is that an even playing-field? That is an affront to democracy."

Under the terms of the £50 billion bank recapitalisation plan announced by Mr Darling on 13 October, the government will buy up to £17 billion of ordinary and preference shares in HBOS and Lloyds TSB at a discounted rate of 8.5 per cent (plus 1.5 per cent costs that the banks must meet).

The purchase price was set at 113.6p a share for HBOS and 173.3p for Lloyds. But shares in both have since fallen sharply and last night stood at 63p for HBOS and 131.2p for Lloyds. Mr Darling's statement makes clear that ordinary shares will in future be bought at a price that reflects any recent fall in value – offering a worse deal than a month ago.

In addition, the government could expect a 14 per cent return on bank preference shares – up from the 12 per cent it has demanded under the current takeover proposal.

One City source said there were now clear incentives for HBOS and Lloyds TSB shareholders to back the takeover as the alternative was far less financially appealing: "The Treasury is saying supporting Burt and Mathewson is like turkeys voting for Christmas."

The SNP and Liberal Democrats, who have urged a full examination of alternative rescues for HBOS in the wake of coverage in The Scotsman, repeated concerns about the effect on jobs.

MSP Alex Neil, of the SNP, said: "The Treasury seems to be doing everything it can to inject doubt and frustrate alternate plans that could keep HBOS independent and safeguard competition and tens of thousands of jobs. It is increasingly clear that the UK government holds all the cards in this deal."

Tavish Scott, leader of the Scottish Lib Dems, said: "Is the Chancellor really saying he will allow an independent HBOS to collapse? That is not a credible statement from the UK government."

But Accord, a union representing HBOS staff, said the bank could not survive as an independent entity and the Lloyds takeover represented the best deal for staff. General-secretary Ged Nichols said there was also a risk that the bank would be sold off piecemeal if the government was forced to take a larger stake and effectively nationalised it.

Mr Nichols said: "Because of the bank's reliance on the wholesale market for funding and its exposure to the UK housing and commercial property sectors, we do not believe that HBOS could have a secure and sustainable future on its own."

Shane O'Riordain, a spokesman for HBOS, said: "We reiterate our view that Sir Peter Burt and Sir George Mathewson have not provided either a business plan or a funding plan to take this company forward."

ANALYSIS - Bill Jamieson

Not so much a rout as a disaster, with taxpayer losing £10.5bn instantly


ANOTHER black day for Scotland's banks – and a deeply apprehensive one for all who use them or work for them.

Yesterday shares in HBOS sank a further 15 per cent to 63p, taking the fall from their peak last year to 91 per cent. At this level the bank is price-tagged at just £4 billion – £40 billion of value having vaporised this year.

It is little better at rival Royal Bank of Scotland. Yesterday its shares sank a further 6.7 per cent to a new 12-month low of 41.7p. This price-tags the group, which claimed a year ago to be one of the world's top five banks, at just £18 billion.

The latest falls have been driven by fears that the deepening recession will trigger even greater bad debt write-offs and writedowns than already provided for under the government's recapitalisation plan – and could necessitate yet more taxpayer cash injections.

As matters now stand, taxpayers stand to lose £10.5 billion instantly on the re-financing plans already under way.

For RBS, the government has underwritten a rights issue at 65.5p a share to raise £20 billion. At Lloyds TSB the rights price the government will pay is 173.3p. And for HBOS it is underpinning an £11.5 billion cash injection at 113.6p.

These prices are well above the level at which these shares stand now, and the aggregate gap between them is £10.5 billion.

Do share prices matter? Yes – on three counts. First, they are an alternative means for raising capital. But as confidence has drained from the banking sector, it is highly unlikely that anyone bar the government would put up money by buying new shares now.

Second, they are a barometer of confidence in the bank and in the wider economy. And even with the prospect of further interest rate cuts and a tax-cutting package to be unveiled next Monday, confidence is sinking by the day. Third, bank shares are a mainstay of pension funds. And many facing retirement will be hit.

As for HBOS, Alistair Darling has now raised the barriers for an alternative bidder to such insurmountable levels that there is no choice but for shareholders to accept the Lloyds TSB takeover.

The implied price last night was 79p – down almost 25 per cent in a week. This is no bank rout. It is a disaster.

Last-ditch legal bid could still thwart takeover, bankers hope

SENIOR banking figures are considering a last-ditch legal attempt to overthrow the controversial Lloyds TSB takeover of HBOS.

The plan is to lodge an appeal with the Competition Appeals Tribunal against the decision by Lord Mandelson, the Business Secretary, to set aside the Office of Fair Trading's (OFT) concerns over competition policy.

The tribunal, set up under the 2002 Enterprise Act, can review and overrule decisions made by the minister on merger and market references.

Cases are heard before a panel consisting of three members: either the president, Sir Gerald Barling, or one of the chairmen judges, and two ordinary members.

Lay members include the economist Professor Andrew Bain and the Scots advocate Peter Grant-Hutcheson.

A letter, seen by The Scotsman, has been drafted to the tribunal citing two grounds for appeal. The first is that Lord Mandelson failed to keep an open mind in arriving at his decision to put aside OFT concerns about the takeover.

It is claimed his discretion was fettered by pronouncements by Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, and Alistair Darling, the Chancellor, when they declared that competition rules would be waived when the takeover plan was first announced. "In view of statements made by members of the Cabinet and the collective responsibility of Cabinet, we would argue that the previous statements of the Prime Minister and Chancellor about the merger have fettered the Secretary of State in reaching his decision," the letter states.

The second reason for appeal was that "the grounds for making the decision at the time the decision was made were not reasonable by the Secretary of State".

The letter argues that it was not the takeover bid that provided financial stability to the UK banking system, but the initiative launched by the government on 13 October to provide guarantees, loans and capital to banks.

"The Secretary of State should either refer the merger to the Competition Commission, as recommended by the OFT, or provide another reason as to why it is in the public interest not to refer the decision to the OFT," the letter states.

Bill Jamieson

Fuel factor pushes down inflation to 16-year low

CHEAPER fuel prices sent inflation falling at its fastest rate for 16 years during last month and paved the way for more interest rate cuts.

The Consumer Prices Index – the government's official benchmark of the cost of living – slowed to 4.5 per cent in October from 5.2 per cent the previous month.

The bigger-than-expected 0.7 per cent decline is the largest monthly drop since April 1992, the Office for National Statistics said.

Motorists are finally feeling the benefit of falling forecourt prices as crude oil tumbles to less than half its mid-July peak. The average price of a litre of petrol fell 7.1p to 104.5p in the month to October, with diesel dropping 7p to an average 116.3p.

But the sharp fall brings home warnings of the threat of deflation – negative inflation – next year from Bank of England governor Mervyn King and Prime Minister Gordon Brown. A prolonged cycle of falling prices could send the UK into a deep slump.

Experts said interest rates could fall further from the current 53-year low of 3 per cent to kick-start the economy.

Parties battle over future public spending

LABOUR and the Conservatives clashed over spending plans yesterday, with each side trying to outflank the other on cuts.

David Cameron, the Conservative leader, shelved his party's promise to match the government's growth in public expenditure under a future Tory administration from 2010. He insisted the move was crucial to avert the inevitable tax rises Labour's policies of high spending and spiralling borrowing would reap.

But the Chancellor, Alistair Darling, pledged the government would be more efficient and hinted at further savings in Monday's Pre-budget Report.

Yvette Cooper, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, also said yesterday "there may be scope to go beyond" the £30 billion in savings already recommended in the Gershon review of government spending.

• A poll from Ipsos Mori found the Tories' lead over Labour cut to just 3 points.

Thousands more lose jobs

THE jobs axe cut deeper into the UK economy yesterday, with thousands more posts being slashed as unemployment edged closer to the two million mark. Plumbing and building supplies firm Wolseley announced plans to cut 2,000 jobs and close more than 200 branches in the UK and Ireland. Union leaders said National Express was to trim more than 300 workers from its East Anglia franchise. The firm said it was also reviewing catering on its Scotland-London east coast franchise. And Independent News and Media said it was axeing 90 posts, mainly editorial.








The full article contains 2079 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

,

19/11/2008 00:10:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
2

Bring it Off,

UK 19/11/2008 00:11:01
British Foreign Policy in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Abu Dhabi and Dubai as illustrated by those who accompanied Gordon Brown there recently.

We need oil - swap you nuclear for it?

Mike Beaumont—Foster Wheeler Energy Ltd.;
Malcolm Brinded CBE—Shell (Royal Dutch Shell)
Philip Cox—International Power
Tom Delay—The Carbon Trust
Philip Green—United Utilities
Dr. Tony Hayward—BP
Lady Barbara Judge—United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority
Sam Laidlaw—Centrica
Professor Keith Burnett CBE FRS—Sheffield University
Professor Malcolm Grant CBE MA LLD—University College London
Right hon. Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
We'll sell you some nice planes with cool engines to go with your palaces.

Sir John Rose—Rolls-Royce
Then we'll build and manage the airstrips so you can land.

Christopher Hyman—Serco Group plc
Don't worry about the insurance premiums. We can do you a good deal.

Lord Levene of Portsoken KBE—Lloyd's of London
John Napier—Royal and Sun Alliance
The banks could do with some cash though and some business.

David Hodgkinson—HSBC Holdings
Peter Sands—Standard Chartered Bank
We can even install personal ATMs for you to access the cash from the banks in the comfort of your own palace.

Leo Quinn—De La Rue
We'll even build the banks for you and other nice looking offices. We like vegetable shapes in London you know.

Graham Cartledge—Benoy
Tony Douglas—Laing O'Rourke
John McDonough—Carillion
Mouzhan Majidi—Foster + Partners
Ian Tyler—Balfour Beatty
We'll make sure you have the technology to defend the tall buildings as well. Planes, trains, tanks, you name it! No one will fly anything into them... oh.

Angad Paul—Caparo Group
Dick Olver—BAE Systems
If all else fails we might even return some of the stuff we've "borrowed" all those years ago. Please be our friends.

Neil MacGregor—British Museum
Sir Nicholas Serota—The Tate
Don't worry about him, he's just making the numbers up for the rest of them.

Richard Lambert—CBI

3

SkeptikScot,

19/11/2008 00:17:36
"Tories' lead over Labour cut to just 3 points" was what caught my eye! I reckon Lab are gonna sneak it with a small majority. Who would have thought it?!
4

Forward not Back,

19/11/2008 00:22:54
So HBoS shareholders vote the bank into oblivion with a gun pointed at their heads?
5

karin.m,

19/11/2008 00:25:55
here has anyone seen the bnp membership list there are labour and conservative ex candidates on it!!!

nurses doctors police army etc.
6

karin.m,

19/11/2008 00:26:38
conan come to the piano bar now i will give you the link
7

karin.m,

19/11/2008 00:27:43
guess which party wasnt on it????

now who are the nazis again..............
8

Gorach,

Dunadd 19/11/2008 00:28:44
Aye,whatever your political leanings,this is an attack on Scotland.

I won't be doing business with Lloyds.


9

Another Saturday Night,

19/11/2008 00:29:48
Darling is right.

Why would we want to throw money at private equity who might be sniffing around.


This approach was tried in Japan

Shinsei- Ripplewood
Tokyo Sogo- Lone Star etc

What happened?

They did well for a while, the PE boys wipped out biliions, and now they are back in trouble, with no management hanging around.

Only the blind SNP could imagine it would be any different in Scotland.
10

Tris,

19/11/2008 00:30:13

Ah yet another benefit of the Union.......Corrupt practices from the UK government.

What does it matter if there is no competition in Scotland's banks? Maybe some of the English ones will open up here instead. All to the benefit of London.

Thanks Darling and Brown, you parcel of rogues.

I rather suspect Conan, that John Smith's soul will be vomiting at the present moment.
11

Bring it Off,

UK 19/11/2008 00:32:06
Tony Blair (remember him?) desperately wants to keep his job as Middle East peace envoy when Barack Obama succeeds George Bush in the White House in January, I'm told.

"He wants to remain a major player on the world stage." a well-informed source tells me. "It keeps him in the public eye - and boosts his earning potential on the lecture circuit.

"Also, if he carries on, he keeps the security and the private jets and still gets treated like a world statesman. He likes all that."

Critics claim Blair could have achieved much more in the Middle East if he had done the job full time, rather than dividing his time between his diplomatic role and earning money.

It's claimed he has earned £12 million since he left Downing Street last year, including £4.6 million for his memoirs and £2 million from an American bank. It's also claimed he only spends one week a month on the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Officially, whether or not Blair continues as Middle East envoy is in the gift of a so-called "quartet" made up of the United States, Russia, the United Nations and the European Union.

But in reality, I'm told, it will be the Americans' decision. "It's the Americans who have the clout, because they pay the bills and write the cheques," I was told.

Will Obama - urged by Blair last week to lead Middle East peace efforts - want some continuity? Or will he regard Blair as too closely associated with Bush and all the controversy over the Iraq war?

Insiders tell me that whether the former PM remains in the Middle East job could depend on whether the Blairs' close friend Hilary Clinton becomes Obama's Secretary of State.

So, over to you, Hilary...

12

Macd123,

19/11/2008 00:32:52
Can someone please tell Darling and Brown not to come back to Scotland? They clearly value their careers and their party above all else and are happier in their adopted home.
13

Tris,

19/11/2008 00:38:08

#13

Good to see that nice Mr Blair doing so well for himself, dont you think? He so deserves it.

It seems though that there aren't enough days in the week or weeks in the month for all his money-making schemes. Perhaps he could have a word with Mr Brown. He's the nearest thing on Earth to God. Perhaps between them they could give Blair 8 days a week and 6 weeks in a month.
14

Hmm ...,

19/11/2008 00:38:59
... additional costs to the proposed Lloyds/HBOS merged bank on the eve of LloydsTSB's shareholders' meeting!

And an additional 2% return on the preference shares, making 14%p.a. - that's the sort of interest rate that credit cards charge poor risks!
15

karin.m,

19/11/2008 00:40:46
now i wonder if anyone will publish the labour and conservative membership lists.
16

famous 15,

Edinburgh 19/11/2008 00:41:16
Here is one for all good conspiracy theorists. Set up on Yahoo Finance a portfolio of selected footsie 100 companies and include RBS. Watch the new Yahoo streaming show that RBS has more capital movement by several orders of magnitude than any other company. Good journalists would be on to this in a shot. It smells of an illegal conspiracy and easy enough for the financial authorities to solve! (Unless they already know and are part of the problem.) Brown and Darling have betrayed the ordinary working man and women of Scotland. Why the desperation to destroy HQ jobs in scotland and leave the dross?
17

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 19/11/2008 00:58:29

'Ha, Ha, Ha'!

What did your "Charles" tell you from the very Start!

'Come-on',...WHAT?

Clever 'Girls and Boys'!

"Charles", Told you all the deal was, 'Done and Dusted' months ago!

Pawns we all are! the 'Top-Dogs', Know exactly the take-over, is in place, now for several months!


18

Gorach,

Dunadd 19/11/2008 01:00:41
The ordinary working men and woman of Scotland still have the power to show their displeasure at this skullduggery.

You can choose which bank to do business with.
You can choose which party to vote for.
19

Marky Bhoy,

Dunfermline 19/11/2008 01:02:08

The whole thing is a stitch up pure and simple
20

DouglasT,

19/11/2008 01:02:36
Bail-out for Northern Rock (English jobs) - London government says yes, no problem, how much.

Bail-out for Bradford & Bingley (English jobs) - London government says yes, no problem, how much.

Bail-out for Lloyds TSB (English jobs) - London government says yes, no problem, how much.

Bail-out for HBOS (Scottish jobs) - London government says no, no chance, F*** off.
21

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 19/11/2008 01:09:06

comment #1, made in September, my list goes on, I wont bore you with the 'Truth,.....


http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/LloydsHBOS-merger-still-not-a.4513566.jp




22

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 19/11/2008 01:12:02


Marky Bhoy ~21,

...'OF-COURSE' IT IS!,.....AND ALWAYS, HAS BEEN!



23

Another Saturday Night,

19/11/2008 01:12:42
Charles

Some people just like to moan.

Forget about the reality...just drift away.

The bank is being saved... Some people want it saved...

A lot a saving going on at the bank
24

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 19/11/2008 01:16:20


Another Saturday Night ~31,

"saving"

They must of taught me wrong, on the meaning of that word, when I went to school! :))

25

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 19/11/2008 01:20:49

Conan ~32-35,,

We Know that!

Like me, you appreciate a 'Bonny Scottish Lassie'!

Shame we did not think of our,.."Banks", the same!

:)

26

Another Saturday Night,

19/11/2008 01:24:17
The Bonnie Banks of Scotland

It could work as a new name after the merger.
27

Tom R,

19/11/2008 01:55:31
I don't doubt for a minute that many years from now the truth will come out (just as it did this decade about oil in the seventies) that the treatment of HBOS was not in the interest of Scotland, but a further sacrifice of Scottish interests to preserve the union.

I am prepared to bet that had Glenrothes been won by the SNP, Scotland and HBOS would not have been treated in such a cavalier fashion-level playing field my a**.
28

Jock MacSprog,

19/11/2008 01:55:46
its a moot point as there are no other offers. Burt Mathewson have nothing but air. For the umpteenth time, NO ONE WANTS HBOS, ITS A FAILED BANK
29

subrosa,

19/11/2008 02:03:25
# 40

If HBOS is in such a state why are the government rescuing it and why are LTSB buying it - unless it's the deal of the century.

The whole thing stinks. It's such a pity other politicians won't stand up and say that.
30

Another Saturday Night,

19/11/2008 02:10:33
#41

You completely misundertand the meaning of a bail-out.

Your type think's there has to be something in it for you before you take any interest.

Poor show.

31

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 19/11/2008 02:11:53


subrosa ~41,

Never mind the "Watergate" scenario, this is the "Bankergate" scenario!

All 'Truth's will be made public in what?

Some 30years from now?, is this still the time limit for the 'secret society' to reveal all lies, and going-on's?



32

,

19/11/2008 02:16:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
33

Statsman,

Edinburgh 19/11/2008 02:40:25
Darling is putrid filth.
34

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 19/11/2008 02:42:13
#41

You completely mis-understand the nature of a business deal.

There would be no deal unless there was a trade-off and the prospect of considerable future gain.

Or perhaps you think Lloys TSB is performing some mega altruistic act?

There is clearly no level to which London will stoop to seize control of a Scottish asset - they create their own playing field and to hell with jobs, competition and anything Scottish.
35

Another Saturday Night,

19/11/2008 02:47:29
Everyone seems to misunderstand.

No wonder there is no much "confusion"
36

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 19/11/2008 03:23:58


None the point, in the commenting!, anyone with a modicum of intelligence, knows,..'The Deal is Done'!...

...'End-Off'!

Far the better, the comments,..'Why Was this inevitable Outcome',...

...WILL take Place?

'Mark my words', It will be!


37

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 19/11/2008 03:35:46
From the Guardian September 18 2008:-

"Sir Victor Blank, the chairman of Lloyds TSB, revealed that he struck the deal with Gordon Brown at a City drinks party on Monday."

The article states

"The secretary of state for business, John Hutton, confirmed that the government would override competition law."

There is something rotten in the British state.
There is something rotten in Brown.
There is something rotten in Darling.

Corruption is a way of life for the British.
38

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 19/11/2008 03:35:51

And I can see it now!

"Charles Linskaill, told you all this months ago again"

"Lloyds TSB, 'IS' the ones, that WILL-BE"!

END-OFF!!

'Like it, or Lump it' , this IS Truism!!

39

Charlie Ferrier,

Hamilton 19/11/2008 03:38:28
Really beyond a joke - its a corrupt practise that any regulator should immediately step on - Clearly some people in government have been there so long and are used to being wined and dined by the TSB Lloyds money men that they have lost sight of what is just and fair.

Further they are robbing Scotland, their own native land of a rich source of jobs and international influence.

Absolutely disgraceful - they should be ex-communicated from being Scottish
40

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 19/11/2008 03:49:21


Charlie Ferrier ~51,

101% AGREE!



41

Another Saturday Night,

19/11/2008 03:57:09
Salmond will just have to move on to his next "project".

I bet everyone can hardly wait to find out what it will be...
42

Another Saturday Night,

19/11/2008 04:02:41
"The first Scotsman on the moon plan" gets the backing of Salmond.

43

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

19/11/2008 04:14:32
Oh Yes, yet another benifit of the Union and Nu labour policy.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO THE TREACHARY THAT IS GLENROTHES
44

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

19/11/2008 04:17:45
The Labour Party think thay can rip the heart out of Scotland because the Traitors of Glenrothes have given them hope! Hope where there is none!

The dumbwits of Glenrothes have a lot to answer for............
45

Another Saturday Night,

19/11/2008 04:19:35
#56

Stalin

It's still a free country, you know....
46

,

19/11/2008 04:22:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
47

M.T.,

19/11/2008 04:26:37
41# Subrosa

Agree! It smells of greed & the decay of corruption.

See Quote below:

The chief executives of the UK's five leading banks, including three in line for government bailouts, earned £54m among them over the past five years.
The staggering remuneration figures, detailing the cash and benefits enjoyed by bank directors, came as Chancellor Alistair Darling defined the rules for government bank aid ahead of a meeting of Lloyds TSB shareholders in Glasgow today that will decide on the proposed takeover of HBOS. The figures, calculated by the left-leaning thinktank, the Labour Research Department, show that all the executive directors named in the annual reports of Royal Bank of Scotland, Lloyds and HBOS - banks in which the government will take a £37bn stake - earned a combined £122m in pay and cash bonuses, including more than £64m in bonuses alone. The figure excludes the shares paid out to the directors over the five-year period.

48

Another Saturday Night,

19/11/2008 04:27:39
#58

You are just being rude and making a fool of yourself.
49

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

19/11/2008 04:41:47
#60

Thank you.

Its a free country and you are entitled to your opinion. Probably...you are one of them.....!
50

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

19/11/2008 04:53:29
Darling is wrong.

we should throw money at private equity

This approach was a success in Japan

What happened?

They did well.

Only the blind Nu Labour could imagine it would be any different in Scotland.
51

donald,

glasgow 19/11/2008 04:57:13
More high fives for Labourites opposed to an Independent Scottish bank.
52

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

19/11/2008 04:57:31
Darling and Brown do have somethings in common.

Poor dress sense, and an uncanny knack of sweating buckets when asked a difficult question.

The pieces are coming together.
53

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

19/11/2008 04:58:34
Nobody seems to understand.

No wonder there is no much "confusion"
54

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

19/11/2008 04:59:31
Darling will just have to move on to his next "project".

I bet everyone can hardly wait to find out what it will be...
55

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

19/11/2008 05:00:18
"The first Labourite on the moon plan" gets the backing of Brown.
56

Pilrig,

Livingston 19/11/2008 05:33:24
66 - tax hikes if he and his comrade next door win the next the general election.
57

Rodster,

Glasgow 19/11/2008 06:30:38
Brown did say he would do anything to save the union , and he has done just that .
the first promise he has ever kept.
Such betrayal of Scotland and Scottish jobs.
a great victory for the Vichy Scots , enjoy your country's demise .
what a parcel of rogues right enough...
58

Angleland Isover,

19/11/2008 06:38:10
As always. We are taking it and theirs fak all you can do about it. Vote the union or we will crush you.
59

john z,

edinburgh 19/11/2008 07:15:26
So now we see just what labour want for Scotland. Brown, Darling, Murphy and Gray YOU ARE A BUNCH OF LOW LIFE TRAITORS.

I urge every single person about to lose their banking job in Scotland to write, write, and write again to their MP, and make it VERY CLEAR that labour will be PUNISHED at the next election.

I just hope Nicola Sturgeon puts Traitor Murphy back in his box tonight on question time in Glasgow.

Please, people of Scotland, get off your subservient knees, and wake up to just what this Labour bunch are doing to Scotland. Labour are sh*fting Scotland just to win votes in the South of england.

Brown, Murphy, Gray and Darling are actively destroying the Bank of Scotland and 10,000 scottish jobs unnecessarily, just so they can try to bash the SNP. It is the very lowest of the lowest of truly treacherous behaviour.

How can Brown, Murphy, Gray and Darling live with themselves. They are utter low lifes, WORSE THAN THATCHER.


WAKE UP SCOTLAND.




60

john z,

edinburgh 19/11/2008 07:21:26
As Brown said, he will do ANYTHING to save the english union.

This now includes actively and unnecessarily destroying the Bank of Scotland and several thousand Scottish banking jobs.

Itt includes actively working to prevent any alternative valid bid for HBOS.

It includes ACTIVELY working to destroy the Scotland football team.

They continually talk down Scotland.

They want to utterly crush all sense of Scottish self respect. Typical english imperialism and colonial behaviour. Scum.

Be in no doubt, Brown, Murphy, Gray and Darling will quite openly crush Scotland and Scottish jobs for political gain.

THEY ARE TRAITORS. Wake up Scotland!
61

john z,

edinburgh 19/11/2008 07:25:08
Now we can see the true benefits of the undemocratic english union - UTTER SUBJICATION AND DESTRUCTION OF SCOTLAND.

I do hope the voters in Darling Edinburgh constituency remember this come the next election.


62

SouthernSkye,

19/11/2008 07:27:49
Hah ! Finally they admit there is NO level playing field and Brown and Darling will ride rough-shod over democracy and do as they damned want !

Words fail. This is simply no on. Who can stop this? House of Lords question this? Lib Dems must push it at PM questions.
63

john z,

edinburgh 19/11/2008 07:30:47
IF this were happening in England, it would be on the news 24/7, but because we have NO scottish media, these low lifes from London Labour are not being held to account.

There are no questions being asked about this on any major news channel. I just wish we had REAL Scottish news instead of the anglicised rubbish we get on SKY and EBC.

Anyway, to make me feel better, I'm going to go to Hampden to try to shake the 'hand of god'. Maradonna, the man who played SO WELL against England. And the english media are still whinging about it.

No doubt Brown will be cheering on england again.
64

john z,

edinburgh 19/11/2008 07:37:36
The Scottish Parliament needs to TAKE executive powers. What will the english do?? send in the army??

Time for the Scottish parliament to do what it needs to, to block this undemocratic english treachery.

It is clear as clear can be, that Darling and Brown are IGNORING the law, and just deliberately trashing Scottish jobs. Unemployment is rising, and Brown and Darling and Murphy are ACTIVELY trashing the Scottish banking sector.

This is a complete abuse of executive power by Darling, and so the DEMOCRATICALLY elected Scottish parliament should now proceed to TAKE EXECUTIVE powers to save the Bank of Scotland.

Enough is enough.

For heavens sake, Scotland stop voting for Labour. Wake up.
65

sm753,

19/11/2008 07:41:56

Can anyone explain why on Earth the Government should spend at least £500m of our money buying HBOS shares worth 63p at £1.136?

And perhaps someone could comment why HBOS' main union thinks LTSB is the best outcome?
66

Dave,

Western Isles 19/11/2008 07:49:15
Scorched Earth Policy.

Well f**ck ewe Darling.
67

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 19/11/2008 08:03:34
Gordon Brown is now making it clear that "I will do everything that is required in order to maintain the union." is no idle boast but becoming the main plank of government policy in Scotland.
68

Iain's,

19/11/2008 08:03:56
Well done Daphne Broon!

Now watch the highest unemployment rates in Edinburgh since Flodden!
69

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 19/11/2008 08:04:40
HBOS asked Lloyds to make a takeover bid as thet were going under! Why should the Government have to bail any of these wastrel banks out.
70

Mrs Broon,

Dunfermline 19/11/2008 08:04:56
Well we all know what the Labour Party in Scotland think about the punters here. They get to retain a safe seat with a reduced majority and Mandy and Campbell pollute the atmosphere with a whole lot of lies and the Stupid Folk here just lap it up. I am finally coming round to my husbands way of thinking. When we get a fair and impartial media in this country and not the Labour Party hacks I might even buy a paper again, as it is I am having to turn off Radio Scotland and stop reading the Scottish Press for the rubbish I am being forced to swallow. To the Unionist's who are commenting on here may I say, this is your country your a destroying I hope you can live with it. Farewell.
71

Alastair the First,

19/11/2008 08:15:09
Brown and Darling booted out at the next election....
72

Alastair the First,

19/11/2008 08:21:06
It was said to me the other night that what was needed in this country was not just a register of MPs' interests, but also a register of journalists' interests. Half the journalists who write in the papers are married to Labour or Tory MPs, live with them, have connections with unionist-orientated organisations or individuals, and are generally not terribly impartial. We don't have a free press in this country, we have a watered down version of pravda.
73

TWC,

19/11/2008 08:23:02
Unite union say we are neutral in this we just want a commitment there will be no involuntary redundancies.
Well I for one would be changing my union to one that is not in New Labour's pocket.
Why did I ever trust Gordon Brown??????
74

morris,

edinburgh 19/11/2008 08:47:07
The government made it clear form day one that HBOS was to be taken over by LLoyds TSB (which has been negotaited over the last two years according to some claims in English papers)and the Government are in effect guilty of blackamil.

What is far more of a concern is that UNITE care more about kow-towing to LABOUR HQ dictates than saving their members jobs !
TWC above is 100% SPOT ON.YOu should have heard one of their Glasgow Labour Party hacks this morning attacking the two men who were at least trying to save the bank.
The staff at Bank of Scotland will suffer job losses in time but its their own UNION which is the biggest culprit.
No doubt they will swallow this guff, hook line and sinker.
The same happened at Ravenscraig.Such was their Unions bilind allegiance to the Liar Party the Union actually backed closure!

YOU NEVER LEARN SCOTLAND DO YOU?
75

MacMhuirich,

Ljubljana 19/11/2008 08:57:33

22 Douglas T

What makes you think the government bailout of Northern Rock has not prevented the loss of jobs - and jobs in England? Northern Rock has been forced to scale down its operations and lots of jobs have been lost. Some jobs have been saved because the company has not gone bankrupt, but this is not model you would like for HBOS. Would you want at least half of the jobs in HBOS to be lost in a nationalised bank?

Remember too that the UK government is recapitalising out RBS with both English and Scottish taxpayers money.

Do you have the breakdown of jobs between Scotland and England for RBS and HBOS? I reckon that as many work in England as in Scotland. The jobs in Scotland are no more under threat, indeed are probably safer, than the jobs in Halifax:
1. because Edinburgh, not Halifax, will remain the HQ for this part of the merged bank's operations;
2. there is a commitment on the part of Lloyds to safeguard jobs in Scotland but not in Yorkshire;
3. Lloyds TSB already has strong Scottish roots;
4. Edinburgh has more political clout than Halifax.

If the UK government and taxpayer is providing the money are they not entitled to lay down some conditions for the future management of the bank that will benefit from the Money. HBOS or Lloyds or RBS are not obliged to accept the taxpayers' money. Barclays didn't but instead went to the Gulf and obtained more expensive finance which will dilute the existing shareholders' stake evenmore and will have less accountable dominant shareholder.

An alternative bid for HBOS can succeed if the bidders can provide the additional finance, as Lloyds TSB are. Without these extra resources how can an alternative bid be credible?
76

Warden An' All, Reborn,

19/11/2008 09:00:41
Any rescue plan must put the bank into a strong enough position, not just treading water. This economic down turn is only beginning. If it had been ending HBOS might of been safe to go it alone.
77

thistle do,

here n' there 19/11/2008 09:04:53
What's all the fuss, HBOS is fluffed. It's not Brown/Darling's fault. Why don't folks turn thir attention to the HBOS board and senior managers who still seem to have their noses in the trough. They've taken the bonuses but not dislayed their corporate governance responsibilities. Keep using the bank for your day to day stuff to support the real workers but if you've any extra savings get them into somewhere else (not RBS because just as bad). Get rid of the now.
78

Alastair the First,

19/11/2008 09:07:41
89: no-one's suggesting they haven't screwed up. It's the difference in response from the UK government for HBOS compared to the others that smells of fish.
79

JayJay,

Right here 19/11/2008 09:07:55
Given present market conditions, HBoS's recent business strategy of buying into and supporting the housebuilding market (a strategy incidentally that was 100% backed by Government who had signalled a need for many thousands of new homes across the UK) looks like an act of folly.
5 years down the line, with a recovering market, I can just read the headlines acclaiming the Board of Lloyds for record profits as they realise their significant stakes in Cala, Tulloch, Miller, Crest Nicholson etc etc. That it was a brave decision by HBoS to back such businesses will be a very short footnote on page 93.
Brown and Darling are perfectly well aware that market conditions have utterly destroyed the banking sector across the board. Lloyds position, whilst marginally better than HBoS, is still far from healthy and I still fail to understand why the marriage of two weak entities somehow creates strength. Perhaps there is more to the Lloyds deal than has been reported - eg underwriting losses, keeping schtum on massive job losses etc.
This latest attack on Scotland by the Chuckle Brothers in Westminster will, in years to come, be seen for what it is....political spite. And as for the Trade Union warmly applauding from the sides as 10,000 plus jobs are flushed down the pan, well done you lickspittles. Nice to see principles flying out the window when the fax comes in from Downing Street and tells you what to say/think.
80

Mr Lahey,

Edinburgh 19/11/2008 09:13:14
As most people on here can only rant and are incapable of coherent rational discourse it remains for me to point out that Scotland has what will be the fastest growing Retail Bank in the UK. It's called Tesco's, it now has a banking licence and is being run from Edinburgh by the great and the good of RBS & HBOS.
81

Linda,

Edinburgh 19/11/2008 09:21:47
Another Union dividend. Why bother with Scottish MPs at westminister if they dodn't stand up for Scotland.
82

daveserviceman,

edinburgh 19/11/2008 09:30:24
The People who are about to lose their jobs with HBOS when it gets moved to london should join up with the two ex bankers get a rich backer and start a new bank.
and call it" The New bank of Scotland" I would certainly change from my current bank to the new one
83

Chris Mitchell,

Edinburgh 19/11/2008 09:32:33
How can it be fair that the Chancellor and Prime Minister keep coming out with "scary" statements to force the shareholders to back the theft of HBOS.
The last time I checked we lived in a democracy not a communist state, people should have the free will to vote whichever way they want, if it was an election and the parties were making statements like this trying to force peoples decision on who to vote for there would be an outcry.
I fear that Lloyds are covering up much larger job losses than have been mooted, Eric Daniels said at one point that suggestions of 40,000 job losses were on the "high side", probably the high side of 39,000 actual losses.
We've seen rescued banks like RBS and Citigroup, even they are laying off potentially tens of thousands of workers.
Under normal conditions a merger would lead to tens of thousands of job losses, I can only imagine that in the current climate the losses to Lloyds and HBOS staff with be much more brutal.

@92 Maybe Tesco should buy the Mound, then we'd still have a scottish Banking presence there instead of an empty Lloyds Office!
84

Alan B,

19/11/2008 09:34:57
#sm753

"Can anyone explain why on Earth the Government should spend at least £500m of our money buying HBOS shares worth 63p at £1.136?"

Exactly. Just why are the government bailing out shareholders. This bail out is not just about saving the bank but about paying shareholders alot of unjustified money along with bailing out other faceless institutions that are possibly not even british that lent to HBOS in the credit markets.

There is alot more to this deal that we are being told.
85

ploughmans lunch,

19/11/2008 09:40:58
So thats it official then .The poxed corrupt union is not a democracy but a dictatorship led from the sleaze ridden London Labour party.
Glenrothes 7000 postal votes 7000 liebour majority this stinks and should be investigated,remember Birmingham.
86

morris,

edinburgh 19/11/2008 09:41:56
93

Why indeed Linda?
Unfortunately many people in Scotland believe what their Labour party membership carrying shop stewards tell them,and what they read in publications like the Daily Retard.
They never stop to ask IS IT TRUE or LONDON BRAINWASHING ?
Scotland is fairly unique in the world.How many countries do you know who want to be governed from outwith their own borders?I can only think of Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland.If there are more I cannot think of any off hand and they can only exist because they have (like us) not yet woken up to the obvious. Any kind of imperialsism benefits one nation only!The biggest/strongest gets bigger and stronger and the rest are used as political whipping boys.Its happened throughout history,and The British Empire was a classic example of this.Scotlands problem was that whilst she benefitted from the Empire,she had not understtod that she was herself a subserviant part of it, and just because we can elect 59 quislings to the Westminster parliament,does not change that one iota.

GET OFF YOUR KNEES SCOTLAND AND STAND UP!