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Hi-tech signs to tell motorway drivers exact journey times



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Published Date: 14 October 2008
DRIVERS travelling between Scotland's two main cities will soon be able to see how long their journeys will take from electronic signs linked to traffic cameras.
By the end of the year, the M8 between Edinburgh and Glasgow will become the country's first road to show actual driving times to key junctions.

Such signs will also be used to display more "green" motoring messages, to help cut fuel use and emis
sions.

The roadside signs will display the distance and current journey time to junctions ahead, using a network of cameras which track vehicle number plates.

The technology, already in use in England, will later be extended to other busy motorways, such as the M90 approaching the Forth Road Bridge.

The M80 between Glasgow and Stirling, M9 between Edinburgh and Stirling, and the M74 between Glasgow and the Border will also be covered.

The Scottish Government's Transport Scotland agency, which is responsible for motorways and other trunk roads, said the information would provide a key aid for drivers.

Jim Barton, the agency's director of trunk roads management, said: "The aim is to provide reliable and robust information. It's not the shortness of the journey that is important to people, but the reliability – knowing how long it's going to take."

Mr Barton said more environmental messages would feature on the electronic signs, following on from the current "Slow down, save fuel".

Mr Barton said: "The environmental message is something which we will begin to promote, which could include encouraging motorists to drive at a constant speed, and to think about alternative travel modes, such as bus and train. However, the focus is very much on carrot, not stick."

He said a planned "Don't Panic Buy" message during the tanker drivers' strike in June had been withdrawn for fear of inflaming the dispute.

The Traffic Scotland website includes a "carbon calculator" which compares the emissions of cars, trains and buses for the same journey. A cost comparison between the modes of transport is also planned.

The Association of British Drivers, a motoring lobby group, backed improved information on journey times but said that environmental messages would prove to be counter-productive.

Bruce Young, its Lothian and Borders co-ordinator, said: "I have been very impressed by the sign on the M8 westbound into Glasgow (at Easterhouse] which accurately predicts the journey time to Charing Cross and other landmarks. These will be very useful in helping drivers to judge their arrival time.

"However, 'green' messages are less useful. They are often painfully obvious and more likely to distract and even irritate drivers.

"Instead, sensible road safety messages such as the two- second rule (leave two seconds between your car and the one in front] and seatbelt wear would be useful."

Cameras to put drivers in picture

A NETWORK of 400 cameras will supply the journey-time information by recording how fast vehicles travel between two designated points on the motorway network.

These cameras will use automatic number-plate recognition technology to track movement and then calculate average journey times, which are then displayed on electronic signs.

The equipment is similar to that used by the police, who operate a separate network of cameras sited across the roads network. They are also fitted to police cars, allowing

them to track criminals. It can also check vehicles at a rate of nearly one a second to ascertain whether they are insured and have road tax.



The full article contains 579 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 14 October 2008 12:59 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Hmm ...,

14/10/2008 00:21:54
... a survey by an insurer a week ago found that a large proportion of drivers were unaware that children under 135cms tall must by law use a seat booster to let their seat belt fit properly over their torsos.

RoSPA wanted penalty points to concentrate drivers' minds on the issue. These signs might be a better way of publicising the rule - and without taxing already overtaxed drivers.
2

livilion,

livingston 14/10/2008 00:45:33
Hi-tech signs to tell motorway drivers exact fines for speeding and not displaying valid tax disks, you meant to say? My SatNav tells me about traffic conditions and estimated times of arrival.

I wonder if these cameras will work as well as the electonic signs they put up recently to tell us that the M8 was closed at Harthill for installing the new footbridge? That sign had folks like me diverting through Blackburn and Shotts for a week before they closed the road that night.
Or the CITRAC overhead signs that tell us that there was congestion or fog on that road ten hours ago, or the roadside signs requesting us to slow down for roadworks that finished two weeks ago.


Anything that distracts the attention of motorists from the road itself, like flashing strobes, or annoying roadside signage must be a step forward for road safety, otherwise why would we have so many of them?
3

donald,

glasgow 14/10/2008 04:37:05
Why not a picture of self publicist, Jim Murphy?
4

JSM,

glasgow 14/10/2008 06:53:14
how about finishing the motorway instead of these gimmicks ? The M8 was started when I was in short trousers and I may be retired by the time its completed
5

spiderman,

argyll 14/10/2008 07:53:48
What a waste of electricity. Also of money and yet another distraction for drivers.
6

drunken proffet,

Tassy 14/10/2008 08:15:57
I would say that for persistent offenders, like drinking, speeding or just plain causing mayhem on the roads. Confiscate their cars, compact them and leave them on their front lawn. For the really rich guys, put them in their front living room. Voila, everyone is a good road user.
7

drunken proffet,

Tassy 14/10/2008 08:19:19
I withdraw my comments at #6 it has nothing at all to do with attempting to improve road usage by using modern electronic methods. Still using the KISS principle it may be a good idea.
8

Solo Lobo,

14/10/2008 08:33:56
Be warned that the unelected, unaccountable quango, the Association of Chief Police Officers and the Home Office are creating, by stealth, and without any public debate or consultation, a new National Automatic Number Plate Recognition Database which could retain the vehicle movement data of millions of innocent motorists, for excessive periods of time, i.e. up to 6 years.

Given the recent data security and privacy scandals, how can the public be confident that the private details of millions of innocent motorists, and the privacy of their journey patterns, has not already been lost or stolen on unencrypted laptop computer, USB memory device or CD or DVD ?

How can we be sure that this national database is not accessible online by unuthorised people, or by corrupt or incompetent authorised insiders, whether they be Policemen, civilian staff or sub-contractors or consultants etc ?

Be very clear, this is not ANPR data regarding criminals or people who are actually being watched, or watched out for, as part of a narrowly targeted criminal or intelligence agency investigation, this is vehicle movement data of the vast majority of millions of innocent motorists

The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act should forbid such untargeted, mass surveillance, but the Chief Surveillance Commissioner Rt. Hon. Sir Christopher Rose, does not seem to care to get involved or to provide any public scrutiny, for what that is worth.




9

WJohn,

West Lothian 14/10/2008 10:10:25
Driving at a constant speed is very dangerous, unless the road is empty.
10

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 14/10/2008 10:22:50
Using these signs to give advance warning of road conditions and ESTIMATED (not exact) journey times is a good idea. However that is all they should be used for. They should never be used for inane, dumbing-down propaganda like that suggested above.

If there are no hold ups then tell drivers that. don't bore them with rubbish. Go to France and rive round the Peripherique. When there are no problems on that road, the signs say "Periph Fluide", not some nursery school message about making sure you have enough petrol or telling you to slow down.
11

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 14/10/2008 10:29:04
#8:

These are not full blown ANPR systems. They work by electonically "recognising" number plates using pattern recognition techniques. They don't go as far as actually reading the characters and neither could they ever do as the technology they use isn't up to it.

To be frank, I'm far more concerned about the proliferation of speed cameras which ARE directly used to rip the motorist off.
12

Cheezy,

EK 14/10/2008 10:35:52
#8 i totally agree. just another oppurtunity for big brother to watch what we're up to n where we goin. typical as to the way the uk is going just accepting all these different methods of trackin us which all add up in the end that they then know exactly what everyone is doing.
13

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 14/10/2008 10:45:07
#12:

Cheezy,

They are not full-blown ANPR cameras. You have nothing to worry about in respect of them. See my post at #11.
14

Solo Lobo,

14/10/2008 11:10:48
#11: Copied from the Scottish Police Services Authority website:-

"ANPR is principally designed to be an alert system. ANPR is software which, when fitted to a camera system, can scan and read over three thousand number plates per hour.

Digital images are captured through the ANPR cameras located either in a mobile unit or a fixed site system. The digital image is then converted into data, which is then processed through the ANPR system. The system is able to cross reference the data against a variety of databases including the Police National Computer (PNC), DVLA and highlights vehicles of interest to police forces."

The UK has an extensive automatic number plate recognition CCTV network. Effectively, the police and Security services track all car movements around the country and are able to track any car in close to real time. Vehicle movements are stored for 5 years in the National ANPR Data Centre to be analyzed for intelligence and to be used as evidence.

Another use for ANPR in the UK is for speed cameras which work by tracking vehicles travel time between two fixed points, and therefore calculate the average speed. These cameras are claimed to have an advantage over traditional speed cameras in maintaining steady legal speeds over extended distances. The longest stretch of average speed cameras in the UK is found on the A77, with 30 miles being monitored between Glasgow and Ayr.

The UK company Trafficmaster has used ANPR since 1998 to estimate average traffic speeds on non-motorway roads without the results being skewed by local fluctuations caused by traffic lights and similar. The company now operates a network of over 4000 ANPR cameras, but *claims* that only the four most central digits are identified, and no numberplate data is retained. Yeah, right!

Thin edge of the wedge is being hammered in between Edinburgh and Glasgow under the guise of safety, but how long will it be before the system automatically produces moving traffic offenc
15

Alistair Macintosh,

14/10/2008 11:29:25
You don't need fancy signs for the Edinburgh by-pass. You can have permanent ones. "Long delays going West in the morning" and "Long delays going East in the evening."
Or on the A9 you could have "Caravans and TESCO lorries will extend your travel imte by at least 45 minutes".
16

danbob,

14/10/2008 11:33:42
11# Speed cameras rip nobody off. It's simple Don't speed and you won't pay. Now repeat that back a dozen times and hey presto you may have learned something.
17

Saoghal Beag,

14/10/2008 12:16:18
6 once you hvae compacted them and left them on their front lawns will you return their cars just to prolong their suffering as they won't be able to use them any more.

does this mean that we will have more helpful info like...for more information log on to....
18

Mr. Richard C. Normuss,

14/10/2008 12:25:31
How much will it cost? Is the private sector paying? If the money is extracted from the public purse can we charge the incompetents who initiated & authorised this waste of cash with illegal use of public funds?
19

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 14/10/2008 12:29:03
#14:

TrafficMaster cameras are not capable of proper ANPR. The other ones to which you refer (SPECS, DVLA monitors and police systems) are far more sophisticated.

#16:

danbob:

Repeat after me, 1000 times:-

"Speed cameras are money-making devices which have been directly responsible for thousands of deaths."

You cannot measure road safety in miles-per-hour. If you try to do so, you will GET IT WRONG.
20

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 14/10/2008 12:41:52
All dynamic traffic signs are a waste of time and a distration from the road ahead. Look at those "smiley / sad face" signs that reflect your speed as you drive past; most studies have shown they simply increase the average speed as people feel an urge to spite them.

Instead of all this rubbish let's have a big sign on the news everyday that says how much or our road taxes and traffic penalties gets re-invested into our roads.
21

danbob,

14/10/2008 14:09:38
19# Stop talking shi*. When did a speed camera cause a death. What causes deaths is speeding, lack of basic ability to drive to the conditions, Booze, Drugs, mobile phones, CDs and other in car distractions, ETC, ETC, ETC. The real issue with cameras is that they are an effective deterent at stopping drivers doing what the hell they like. That is the rot of your issue with them. The vast majority who have issues with cameras are the lawless ones on the road who get their wings clipped by them. One of the most hillarious things I witnessed this year was a meathead walk in to Halfords. He was complaining because the speed camera warning device they had sold him for £100 hadn't worked. He had got a ticket. That sums it up for me.
22

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 14/10/2008 15:29:39
The "causes" you have listed are the minor ones. The major causes are inattention, lack of skill and misjudement. Speed cameras do not and never will address these issues.

The reason why people have been killed because of them and their associated propaganda has just been eloquently demonstrated by the comment you just made... In other words, many motorists are so pre-occupied with the speed that they are travelling at that they remain completely blind to the real causes of crashes.

The speed of travel should be determined AS A RESULT OF the consideration of many other factors. Artificially elevating it to an absolute priority distorts the thinking process and thereby causes drivers' levels of observation and concentration to be affected, hence making them more likely to be involved in a crash or near miss.

I agree with you regarding the idiot who bought the "speed camera detector" from Halfords. Unfortunately, that seems to be the hallmark of an increasing number of drivers nowadays and it is in the main due to over-zealous enforcement of speed limits and the use of propaganda to justify it.

In the same way that over-zealous enforcement of pub age limits has given us kids drinking in parks, the speed camera scam has given us drivers who don't bother thinking. Speed limits were never meant to be enforced rigidly. Nor were they intended to be a cash cow for councils and/or central government. They were originally intended as guideline speeds which under normal circumstances should not be greatly exceeded. Their purpose was to be used as an instrument of prosecuting drivers who plainly drove too fast for the conditions without having to prove a charge of dangerous driving.

Their over-zealous enforcement has now led to a good percentage of drivers driving without due care and attention---provided you are driving within the speed limit, you are perfectly safe... or so the propaganda would have us believe.
23

danbob,

14/10/2008 21:24:26
22# I don't disagree with everything you say but it's simply this. The law sets speed limits. If you break them speed limits you get a fine. That's the bottom line. It's like parking in a car park and not paying, then whinging when you get clamped. Well if you paid they wouldn't get clamped. Simple. It's a car driver thing. They think they are above the law do many. They arn't.
24

Chris W,

Argyll 15/10/2008 08:40:58
Typical of government stupidity that whilst they scrapped the "Don't Panic Buy" message because it would obviously do the opposite, they haven't got the sense to see that "Slow Down, Save Fuel" will do likewise.
We have enough stupid nanny-state messages on the M8 signs as it is without any more of this propagana. These signs should only be used for emergency messages, the motorway is no place for party political broadcasts.

 

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