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Salmond: No safe seat for Labour in Scotland



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Published Date: 26 July 2008
ALEX Salmond yesterday claimed there was no safe Labour seat left in Scotland as the full impact of the SNP's sensational victory in Glasgow East emerged.
The First Minister issued what amounted to a battle cry, suggesting the SNP would be unstoppable after ousting Labour from its third-safest seat.

If the 22 per cent by-election swing was replicated across Scotland in a general election, it would leave just one of Labour's 39 MPs in place – Tom Clarke in Coatbridge – with casualties including Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, and Chancellor Alistair Darling.

The scale of the defeat piled further pressure on Mr Brown, who faced demands from Paul Kenny, the leader of the GMB union, and the Labour back-bench critic Graham Stringer, to consider his position.

David Cameron, the leader of the Conservative Party, said the defeat showed the country was desperate for change and challenged Mr Brown to call a general election after the summer. But Mr Brown refused to budge, saying he was "getting on with the job" while again trying to empathise with voters about the soaring cost of bread and eggs.

Simple arithmetic shows that the SNP would have 49 MPs, the Liberal Democrats seven, the Tories one and Labour one if Labour's vote collapsed in a similar manner at a general election. The calculation excludes the Glasgow seat currently held by the Commons Speaker, Michael Martin.

As for what the result would mean if replicated in a Holyrood election, a source close to Mr Salmond said: "We are still doing our calculations, but there is no doubt that the swing last night would wipe out all Labour's constituency MSPs.

"They would receive some list MSPs in compensation for the proportion of their vote … but there is no doubt that we would be by far the largest party, although not necessarily in a majority."

By-elections are unreliable indicators of future governments and success can often be short-lived. Of the four SNP by-election victories prior to the success of John Mason in Glasgow East, all but one failed to hold the seat at the subsequent general election.

However, Mr Salmond yesterday maintained that Glasgow East's voters had been in a "unique" situation. Rather than having a choice between a government and opposition, for the first time they were able to weigh the merits of two parties in power – Labour at Westminster and the SNP at Holyrood. There was also the belief among many Labour loyalists that their party had become "arrogant" and needed to be given a sharp kick, he told The Scotsman.

"We have now demonstrated that there are no safe seats for the Labour party anywhere in Scotland," he said. "They used to say that it was the Tories who could only get one MP in Scotland."

Several other factors also give the Nationalists hope that they are on the cusp of smashing Labour's historic dominance in Scotland – and in particular in Glasgow. They point to the fact that the Glasgow East result was the first recent victory against a Labour government. In 1995 in Perth and Kinross, the Tories were in power at Westminster, as they were during the Govan victories of 1973 and 1988. It was only with the SNP's first by-election victory in 1967 that it defeated a candidate representing a UK Labour government.

Then there is Thursday's turnout. At 42 per cent, it was only six percentage points short of the 48 per cent at the 2005 general election. This gives credence to the argument that electors would vote the same way in the next general election, due by June 2010.

Labour could face an earlier test as Jack McConnell, an MSP and former first minister, will be forced to stand down from his Motherwell and Wishaw seat if his posting as High Commissioner of Malawi is activated next year as expected.

Then there is the promised referendum vote in 2010, a year before the next elections to the Scottish Parliament. Roseanna Cunningham, who achieved the last SNP by- election victory when she took Perth and Kinross in 1995, said the benefits to the party this time were likely to be greater. This would be seen most obviously by an increase in younger supporters and a boost in membership.

Asked what the victory would mean for the SNP's hopes of ending decades of Labour dominance and driving forward its aim of independence, Ms Cunningham said: "What we can take from (the by-election] at an absolute minimum is that scaremongering about independence simply doesn't work. That is the difference from between five or ten years ago. That is another sign you can't simply frighten people away from voting SNP."

Labour's search for a new leader in the Scottish Parliament starts on Monday, following the resignation of Wendy Alexander, and many believe the amateurish attempts to canvass support in a supposedly rock-solid constituency – with imported teenage activists getting lost on a daily basis – showed the absence of a grass-roots organisation.

However, Des Browne, Labour's Scottish Secretary, said it was nonsense to suggest that a by-election result could be used as a guide to future voting intentions across the country. He said voters had wanted to register a protest against high prices caused by world economic conditions, and said Labour was already working to re-establish support in Glasgow. However, he did concede that it was a "significantly bad result".

But he compared Glasgow East to the 1999 Hamilton South by-election, which Labour held by just 556 votes from an SNP charge with a virtually identical swing to Thursday. "I remember the SNP issued a press release, which my local paper carried, saying they were about to sweep me away on the basis of that," he said. "It wasn't replicated at the general election and I have defended that seat twice since then."


The full article contains 988 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 25 July 2008 10:50 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Blah blah oil is me ,

26/07/2008 00:01:37
As if...
2

,

26/07/2008 00:08:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
3

SlyFifer,

California 26/07/2008 00:13:22
With this stupendous victory the SNP can be justly proud. Congratulations to them all. With the remaining parties discredited in one way or another and with the crying need for a viable and worthy opposition to the SNP, perhaps it's time for a new political force in Scotland also with an Independence agenda but a more centerist approach. I'm sure there are good people in the other parties crying out for a new direction who need an idea to rally around. Just saying !
4

Richardinho,

26/07/2008 00:15:18
Fantastic result, but this is not the end but a new beginning. John Mason's tremendous victory has been overshadowed somewhat with the media choosing to concentrate on Gordon Brown's problems, but he has a great task ahead of him to show that he can make a difference to the people of Glasgow East. The political circus may move on , but the problems the constituency faces will remain, but I have every faith that he is the right man to tackle them.
5

JayDeeTee,

26/07/2008 00:21:02
Pity Wendy "the wide moothed dwarf" is not around. "Bring it on" she proclaimed, referring to referrendum on independence. Yes indeed Wendy. Bring it RIGHT ON, and NOW!!!

I heard your wee brother on the radio today. "We've got to learn lessons" he said. Unfortunately, like you, he hears but does not listen. He will also be history soon.
6

Traquir , Alba,

26/07/2008 00:31:47
Labour , always somewhat slow, has just realized
their heartland is being eaten
from the inside out and it is too late
the process is well underway -

Having a set of motivated, passionate and
young SNP councillors
working on the ground is something that I believe can
not be underestimated - to have gone from only 4 out of 79 councillors to 22 out of 79 since 2007 is a huge difference and Glasgow East is one
of the first outward signs of SNP
progress from the inside of Labour's heartlands. It will be but one (a very significant one)
of many cracks which will
cause the Labour heartlands to implode.

At this point Labour is the only thing
that can save this
rotting Union and they are in no fit shape to be up to
that challenge, and the SNP will ensure they never
again become fit enough to be any challenge.

Ian Macwhirter stated the situation well yesterday

"Labour now faces electoral oblivion under Gordon Brown - and the United Kingdom may not survive in its present form"

"This is an astonishing result, tearing the heart out of Labour in Scotland and sending shockwaves all the way to Downing Street."

"The other unionist parties are failing to provide any significant challenge to the SNP, which has grown in authority since it took over the reins of power in Holyrood."

"It may still be possible to prevent complete separation by moving to a form of federalism, with Scotland given greater economic autonomy. But the way things are going, Scotland could be an independent nation within 10 years. The entire UK will be shaken by the earthquake in Glasgow."

see - tinyurl.com/5r4eae

I think Iain is spot on except for his estimate , likely it will be much less than 10 years.
There is a clear message here
get rid of Labour for good and free Scotland from
this oppressive Union.

Saor Alba
7

Castaway,

26/07/2008 00:38:49
Roseanna Cunningham is correct when she said: This would be seen most obviously by an increase in younger supporters ........
This is borne out by the June 2008 TNS poll on a Scottish independence referendum, there was a clear divide with the majority in each of the 4 groups in the age range 18 to 54 saying "I agree" and the majority of the 2 groups in the age range 55 to 65+ saying "I disagree".
8

Traquir , Alba,

26/07/2008 00:39:42
It looks like the knifes are well and truly out
for poor Gordy :

"One minister said: "It's become clear that no one can do any worse than Gordon. If it's happening in Scotland, what chance do we have in London and the South-east? The challenge is how to bring about a change without someone getting their hands dirty." He said no figure in the party stood out as a replacement, but favoured either Alan Johnson or David Miliband. He added: "My fear is that Harriet [Harman] thinks this is her big chance, but she doesn't have the appeal."

see - tinyurl.com/6h3wxg
9

Nevsky,

Moscow 26/07/2008 00:54:28
7.

Didn't really seem to listen to the conservatives in Glasgow did they. Of course you vote is always squeezed in a bye election in fact you can almost hear the pips popping!

You are a nut if you think Auntie Annabel and Cameron will have ANY influence over Scottish voters!
10

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 26/07/2008 00:54:44
Well done the good folks of Glasgow East, you at last stood up to the liebour thieving bullies and sent them homeward tae think again. But it's too late for them now they had 60 years to proove their worth and they FAILED. SCOTLAND NOW is WELL ON HER WAY TO BECOMING A NORMAL INDEPENDENT COUNTRY AGAIN!!!!
11

Mercian,

UK 26/07/2008 00:56:41
This is my personal view as somebody trying to be objective:

Labour lost this election because they have made shambolic mistakes in Scotland and in the UK as a whole. Gordon Brown has acquired a terrible public image as bundler, and lately a looser- and nobody backs a looser.

The SNP have been successful because they have managed to convince voters of their credibility to govern and that their cause is a postive one about standing up for Scotland. At the helm Alex Salmond has shown himself to be a formidable politician.
12

Nevsky,

Moscow 26/07/2008 00:59:01
Labour are spinning this as people registering a vote against 'rising world prices'.

I am afraid they are not they are voting against a directionless and incompetant government that has taxed people nearly out of existence!

13

Mercian,

UK 26/07/2008 00:59:24
This is a little OT about The Southern Independence Party of Texas. I found it interesting and thought some of you would, especially as it mentions the Scottish independence movement.

http://www.sipoftexas.org/faq.php
14

Nevsky,

Moscow 26/07/2008 01:04:55
Here is the link to the Norwegian Government's website. I think you will find it even more interesting.

http://www.regjeringen.no/en.html?id=4
15

Sanny,

Upwey 26/07/2008 01:05:34
3 SlyFifer
Such a party already exists, The Scottish Enterprise Party, SEP. They are an embryonic right-of-centre party that registered just before the last Holyrood election. They could provide a reasonable home for those who lean away from the left policies generally espoused by the SNP, together with a desire for independence from both UK and EU


16

Silence of the Yams,

26/07/2008 01:29:00
Labour need to sack Brown and go cap in hand to Blair and beg him to come back. If they don'y they are going to be wiped out on a scale not seen. Milliband is no PM either, Blair is the only option.
17

Richardinho,

26/07/2008 01:32:17
#18 you're kidding? The only thing I could say for Gordon Brown is that much of this mess was Blair's who pis-sed off just before it hit the fan.
18

Yane,

26/07/2008 01:49:26
#15 That website is completely out there. Loved the pictures o the Ball though! Somehow, I don't think it has anything to do with Scotland —
19

2Pasquenade ,

26/07/2008 02:00:57
Brown bottled it when it came to calling a general election within a few months of becoming PM.

It was the start of his downfall. He dithered over whether or not to call one, hinted that he might, then when the polls looked decidedly iffy, stamped all over the idea.

He is secretive by nature which is an absolute turn off.

When it came to Northern Rock, had he made the decision to guarantee savings sooner, he'd have stopped the run...that dithering caused a great deal of damage to confidence in the economy.

He might very well be a very bright boy, but a leader he is not. If he stays he will lead labour to their worst general election defeat in a generation.

He has to recognise now that he got a fair crack of the whip but has failed to cut the mustard. If he decides to fight on, he is thinking only about himself.

He says that he's 'just getting on with the job', but in truth his holding the job depends on the wishes of the electorate , and the message is now loud and clear : Go now Gordon.
20

Nevsky,

Moscow 26/07/2008 02:20:48
What the English really think:

As the English see it, they - we, I should say, despite my traces of Celtic blood - pay the Scots so they can exercise the privilege of complaining about us. We now seethe with resentment when we hear (as we do every day) a Scottish accent among our political rulers. We let them have their own parliament, we tend to think, so why are they still cluttering up ours?

From the Telegraph! One for our unionist friends to debate!
21

Greatscot....,

London 26/07/2008 02:51:09
This is it. Finally here we go. Now Scotland can be a nation no longer dependent on England. Now we can be dependent on Brussells. This is progress.
22

FTH22inarow,

26/07/2008 04:23:36
why do the SNP stand for westminster elections in the first place, they don't believe in it afterall
23

Guga II,

Rockall 26/07/2008 05:06:59
#24.

Because the Westmiddenster government still controls our money and our resources, and steal as much of it as they can from us. That is why we need to be independent.
24

Guga II,

Rockall 26/07/2008 05:07:57
#25.

Is it hurting?
25

Graham Simpson,

Vancouver 26/07/2008 05:22:39
#22 Nevsky... Yes you are correct!.. it should be we and not they. Only an Englishman would condescendingly state that 'We let them have their own Parliament".. Nobody but Nobody let us have anything... we demanded, fought for and secured our own Parliament after 300 years of subjugation... as simply a stage in the unrelenting battle to secure absolute independence. We will never give up until this is achieved. You do not LET us have anything!.. we will take it with every resource at our disposal.
26

DAH,

26/07/2008 05:40:30
"If the 22 per cent by-election swing was replicated across Scotland in a general election, it would leave just one of Labour's 39 MPs in place – Tom Clarke in Coatbridge"

Come on SNP in the Coatbridge constituency - prove the cynics wrong!
27

inoui,

Bordeaux 26/07/2008 05:43:46
Not just the labour political party.
28

Black & White Triumph,

Greenhill Road.....soon 26/07/2008 05:56:20
Now is the time to push on for independence, this vote while being in the category of a protest vote, it can also be viewed as a vote for independence.

we should now confidently put our case, remove ourselves from the union and go our way as an independent nation with our own voice and with the best interests of all Scots to the forefront.
29

Guga II,

Rockall 26/07/2008 06:43:24
#34. And why are you wasting your time commenting in a Scottish newspaper? Wouldn't the Guardian feel more at home for you?
30

Anglofile,

26/07/2008 06:57:29
I do not like either brown or salmond. salmond must have the biggest head in scotland at the moment. It will soon come down to size when indelendence is not gained.
31

Castaway,

26/07/2008 07:09:57
Here we go again "Gordon Brown is still listening"
And I'm here to listen :27 Feb 2007
Gordon Brown yesterday pledged a new direction for Britain under a "humble" government which will listen and learn. 12 May 2007
And by listening and learning, he will lead a listening government, 2 June 2007
Brown said he will continue to listen and learn from the British people June 28, 2007
Now many will recall that when I took over as Prime Minister I emphasised that the government must listen and the government must learn. September 2007
The responsibility, however, is to listen to people 06 October 2007
Gordon Brown will today tell Premier League bosses planning to play games abroad: "You must listen to the fans." 9/02/2008
He said: "We're listening to what the people of this country April 14,2008
Gordon Brown insists today he is "always ready to listen" 27/04/2008
"My job is to listen and to lead and that is what I will do. May 3 2008
"It's been a very tough verdict, we've got to listen and learn."May 04, 2008
Gordon Brown's listening tour of Britain. While listening, ......07/05/2008
Not everyone hates Gordon Brown. “He listens to our music every day,” says his friend, the Bee Gee Robin Gibb. “Gordon likes our music. May 16, 2008
He said, however, that the government was listening more to those researchers 22 May 2008 He said of course, ministers had to listen to what people were saying 28 June 2008

He added: "We've got to listen and hear people's concerns" 25 JULY 2008

P.S. Gordon,all this listening about you listening has given me sair lugs.
32

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 07:17:53
#37

I’m sure the First Minister will be distraught at the lack of esteem you hold him in.

Are you George Foulkes in disguise?
33

lodger,

Highland 26/07/2008 07:18:58
If a new party were required, perhaps it could be called the "Apathetic Cynical Party". There would be an instant mass membership among the populance.
Just think! no need to waste money on leafletting, canvassing, television appearances and all the rest of the ballyhoo.
All votes not cast at an election would be automatically transferred to the "Apathetic Cynical Party" and they would win huge numbers of seats.

Well done those of you who made the effort to vote in Glasgow East and well done SNP.
34

lodger,

Highland 26/07/2008 07:22:48
Gordon Brown - HUMBLE????
To misquote Winstone Churchill, "He is a very humble man - with a great deal to be humble about".
35

Longdirk Maceth,

NZ 26/07/2008 07:27:46
Some of the reasons why the Scottish people are giveing Broom and Labour a kicking:

1)it was brown that said on tv that he would not work with the scottish government.
2)it was brown who the media say will not return Salmonds calls
3)it was brown that did not congratulate Salmond on his vicotry last yr until embarrassed by the media. Blair did not at all.
4)it is brown who has tried to scupper the LIT policy of the snp, rather than leaving it to be argued out in holyrood.
a) disgracefully trying to withhold scotlands money through the council tax rebate.
b)and used the treasury to declare the policy illegal when it is the remit of the preciding officer to do so.
5) it brown who would not compensate our farmers while compensating english farmers
6)it was brown who delivered the lowest increase in the scottish block grant since the start of the parliament (many think as a punishment for voting snp)
7)it was brown who is try to not pass on the consequentials to the scottish parliament as a result of spending on english prisions.
36

SS,

26/07/2008 07:34:41
I say bring on a referendum indeed - then when 70% - 80% of the country votes to remain part of the Union all the nationalists can finally be quiet. Supporting the SNP and it winning a seat in Glasgow is one thing, but it does not mean anyone who votes SNP wants independence.
37

Longdirk Maceth,

NZ 26/07/2008 07:35:57
Sorry meant Broon.

Bob 10, Why can't he express his opinion from Canada?

It's clear looking at the English newspapers that the English blame Broon for everything cos' he's a "Jock" And therefore want to remove him and ALL other Scotish MP from Goverment. So much for a equal Union.
Yes I really hope Scotland, can keep moving in this direction and go for independence.
Feel sorry for the English people, when the Tories get back in and start stripping public services and putting up taxes, what will they turn to then?

38

Richard M,

Scottish Raj 26/07/2008 07:47:40
We saw it all before in Govan in 1988. The Ace enn Pee won a by-election then. It was a protest vote and a low turnout. Mores the pity because in 2 years time when there is a general election some Labour donkey will get back in again
39

walter,

26/07/2008 07:59:45
Well done the Mr Mason, Mr Salmond and the SNP.
Only the future will tell just exactly what this result means! and when I say the future I mean 2010.
By elections mid term are not an indication of future voting intentions.
This is mainly due to the fact that in a by election parties can saturate that one constituency and Glasgow east is a good example of this you could have been mistaken in thinking it was Salmond that was standing for the seat and not Mason, also these are normally when protest votes go in or those that normally vote don't.
Scotland is different though it has a grievance of being dragged screaming and kicking from its near communist mentality (where it expected the state to subsidize its industry and unions would call for a strike at the drop of a hat) by Mrs Thatcher.
The SNP although having its core support appeals to the lefts right wing tendencies and they are not the Tories so Labours support will vote for them.
The SNP are a young political party of power and they play well into the mindset of Scottish chip on the shoulder grievances.
Whether that will work in a referendum for independence is a different matter the vast majority of Scots are still in favour of the union.
The SNP offer an alternative to the Tories (who are making a slight come back) and Labour whose supporters feel the party has abandoned them.
40

MacGillicuddy,

26/07/2008 08:00:34
It's too late for Brown and the lying, corrupt Labour Party. Even the traditional voting fodder has seen through them. It is interesting that the Baillieston part of the Glasgow East constituency, Margaret Curran's (former) personal fiefdom, had the largest swing away from Labour. This shows that there is no confidence anymore in the lying Curran or her outcast party.
This by-election victory brings independence just that bit closer. Scotland is on the move and we will soon throw off our chains of subjugation.
O happy days!
41

Stephen fae Scotland,

San Francisco (& Edinburgh) 26/07/2008 08:18:34
Dream on Gnats - dream on...... Where are all those other 'spectacular by-election victories' of yesteryear? Oh that's right - lost by the SNP at the next general election.
42

Iain Ban,

26/07/2008 08:21:14
# Bob10

Why can't Scots who don't live in Scotland not be nationalists? UK PM Brown and many other neo-con NuLAB failures are Scottish and live in another country most of the time. Or do you think only Scottish unionists can live abroad and be allowed to comment on home affairs? Unionist logic is becoming more and more surreal by the day. Face it, you're on the road to oblivion. And about time too.
43

walter,

26/07/2008 08:25:02
#44 Longdirk Maceth,
There is a big difference in given an opinion as you have from foreign field and the way #30 gave there's.

"Nobody but Nobody let us have anything... we demanded, fought for and secured our own Parliament after 300 years of subjugation... as simply a stage in the unrelenting battle to secure absolute independence. We will never give up until this is achieved"

Those in foreign lands and that includes yourself are not part of the "we" We are the Scots who live in this country and who will be affected by either staying with or leaving the union.

If those who are abroad feel that strongly about Scotland's future why are they not here where the end result will affect them fighting their corner.
44

donald,

glasgow 26/07/2008 08:25:08
What noo for Curran's Bendy Queen chances? Will she still be allowed to run for Labour's North British Leaderless campaign? Will anyone be suicidal, or thick enough to run for the poisoned chalice? The second option looks more likely given Labour's numpty form, encouraged by the North British Unionist meejah sycophants..
45

gus1940,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 08:32:35
That's right - the good old imperialist strategy of Divide and Rule.
46

Graham Simpson,

Vancouver 26/07/2008 08:33:56
34 Bob10.. and where do you live and waste your time Bob? I live very productively in Vancouver and also in Edinburgh and Southern Europe. One can still be a Scot and live an international life. By the way, yes... I am a committed scottish nationalist and have been for many years. Fortunately, however, I am not rabid and you are certainly not wasting your time in a library or a school, since otherwise you might know that to be rabid is to be infected with rabies.
47

allan58,

edinburgh 26/07/2008 08:35:20
I suppose the spin & bluster were all too predictable.
"We need to listen"
"Lessons need to be learned"
"Voters want to punish the government for rising prices resulting from world economic conditions"
Got a familiar ring to it hasn't it. Everything but face up to the truth & learn from it.

Still, I think the comment of the day has to come from the defeated Labour candidate who stated something like " Everybody expected us to lose by a significant amount and, we didn't lose by a significant amount"! (please correct me if I'm wrong someone).

Well now, having seen a 13000 majority overturned & the safest seat in Scotland ( one of the 3 safest in the UK) lost, perhaps Ms Curran could explain exactly what "significant" means by her definition?

Of coures, there is no way GB will call an election. He was too cowardly before & he will be even more cowardly now. His busted flush government will stumble blindly on for another 2 years ( like its Tory predecessor)before finally succumbing to its long overdue & well deserved fate. I'm ashamed to admit I voted Labour in 1997. Never again!
Alex - in the words of Scotlands former clown in chief - "Bring it on".

As for Independendence? Well, that is an unknown quantity. It may very well be true that the majority of Scots do not want independence. However, I think we are entitled to be given the choice.If we vote for indepndence and, it turns out to be a mistake then, it is our mistake to make & we must accept responsibility.
And yet, those "unionist" parties, while publicly ( and rightly) decrying dictators for denying democratic rights elsewhere seek to deny us here the same right to choose.
For the control freaks in Westminster this must have been another truly devastating blow. They can no longer control Scotland and, that is what really worries them.
48

Reject London,

DUNDEE 26/07/2008 08:41:31
Goodbye Labour Plebes though we never knew you at all
You the gall to campaign in Glesga East
Though we knew it was time for your fall

You crawled out of the sewers and peddled the same old lies
But this time we werenae listening and it was you we had come to despise

It seems to us that you campaign all year - like a f a r t in the wind
Never knowing whose your leader and know Wendy has gotten binned
And we would have liked to believe your hype but it's not really worth a dime
Your legend has burned out finally and the SNP said IT'S TIME

(camera pans to the Labour rose on a coffin being carried oot)
49

Magic Hoops 2,

Kirkcaldy, Labours last stand (probably) 26/07/2008 08:45:16
#37

its not the size but its what u do with it that counts. Thankfully Oor Salmond has this well and truly sussed
50

Melly,

Cuckfield 26/07/2008 08:55:21
Bob10 and S.S Feeling a touch bitter? You`ll get over it but it might take a wee while. There`s an unstopable force at play in Scotland and it won`t stop until the country takes it`s rightful place with the nations of the world. I guess you guys will have the h-ump for the rest of your lives - shame.
51

John S,

26/07/2008 08:59:03
The difference between the Glasgow East and previous by-elections is this time the Scottish people have a SNP lead Scottish Government and Scottish Parliament who speak for the Scottish people and address Scottish issues. This gives doubt to the Labour Party way of thinking we will win back Glasgow East at the next election because the same SG will still be in power when the next GE is held.

52

GM,

26/07/2008 08:59:37
Quite predictable the unionist contributors have all but disappeared off the forum since the vote result came in...

But also, quite predicatbly a couple of new faces have appeared (Bob10 for one) on this thread, with what will appear to be the unionist 'strategy' over the next few months.

The startegy is (and I expect AM2 to toe the line) to attack independence along the lines of the 'byelection vote doesn't mean independence vote'.

Now, a while back, that may well have been true - and we have seen it before in by elections where Labour won back seats at the general election... but...
that was when there was no scottish parliament, no SNP government, no youthful groundswell of support for independence etc.

This unionist 'strategy' will appear very often on this forum over the next few days but as far as I'm concerned *no* unionist will have *any* confidence in what they are typing! None at all.
53

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 09:04:59
Dream on Nats. In another article there's a woman saying she voted for Mason because he was A) a good councillor and, more importantly B) gave her a lift to the polling station. Hardly a Damascene conversion. It's a PROTEST VOTE. The died in the wool Labour voting fodder will be snow off a dyke come the next election. Never have so many people suffered from so much self delusion.
54

Jung,

26/07/2008 09:05:25
#59
I am sure AM2 will be along shortly (if he/she has not already appeared), once he / she has completed the Darwin's (of the canoe) Identity Management course.
55

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/07/2008 09:06:06
#60 "The died in the wool Labour voting fodder will be snow off a dyke come the next election."

What, melting away? You seem to have your metaphors somewhat confused, dear. Must be the shock.
56

allan58,

edinburgh 26/07/2008 09:11:59
For someone who's happy to berate others for "self delusion" #60, you appear not to recognise the same symptoms in yourself?

Presumably your comment is the start of the "unionist" response? Surely you can do better than that. It was straight out of the "Labour Party Encyclopedia of Cliches & Excuses for lost By Elections".

Well, one thing IS for sure. There is no way that GB will have the nerve to call an election now. He will drag this out till the last possible minute ( and us with it?)
57

Jung,

26/07/2008 09:15:23
#60

"died in the wool"
Shome mishtake shurely!

How about "dyed in the wool"?
58

GM,

26/07/2008 09:15:36
@60

maybe so, but a s'pose the thousands who voted labour 'because their father did' equally had a solid background of political understanding that assisted them in which box to cross?


Laugh? I'm loving the unionist anti-SNP backlash already and its only just started... your puss must be like a bulldog licking pi s h off a nettle with the sour grapes you're sooking on!!
59

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 09:15:43
Poor AM2, still to bitter and affronted to post under that moniker I see.

Lest we forget, here is what AM2 posted when Salmond predicted a political earthquake in Glasgow East:

---------------------------------------

AM2,Scotland,UK 16/07/2008 23:19:43


J’accuse, Mr Salmond! Of bluster, empty bravado and windbaggery.

• “We are two-thirds of the way up that mountain.”

The “two-thirds” claim was based on the ICM poll, which put Labour on 47% and the SNP on 33%. That would be a 15% swing since the 2005 election.

The SNP then issued a press release misleadingly claiming that the 15% swing (being two-thirds of the 22% required to win the seat) had all occurred “in the first week of the by-election campaign”. Absolute nonsense.
--------------------------------------------------

Sad that AM2 and so many other Unionists lack the grace to admit there empty spin, and congratulate John Mason and the SNP on a historic and sensational win.
60

GM,

26/07/2008 09:17:03
do you think AM2 has been sacked (again) for yet another dismal failure in his role on these forums?
61

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 09:17:04
60. It is weird is it not that Unionists say the SNP is a single issue party, but then find 100 issues other than independence when the SNP win which seem to motivate people to vote SNP.
62

Magic Hoops 2,

Kirkcaldy, Labours last stand (probably) 26/07/2008 09:17:08
Dear Gordon Broon

We, the people of Kirkcaldy hope you had a smashing time down at Westminster courtesy of our expenses. Now your time there is nearing an end you will be looking forward to coming home to live in the nice little cosy constituency you have moulded for your future i.e RETIREMENT!!!.

We dearly hope you have remembered to contribute to your pension during your busy schedule as things back home have became more expensive so wee jimmy cannae have yorkshire puddings for christmas dinner this year. Oops almost forgot....some sticky fingered Ned has been helping himself to the pension fund to fund a Safari in the middle east for him and his mates to have a fun time running riot and making a nuisance of themselves....you wouldnt happen to know anything about that would you????

One other thing.....there seems to be a growing interest in your favourite chair here from other members of the opposite heirachy. They seem to think it will suit their needs better. I know you must have a real bad back wi aw that pressure you have been taking on recently so as a token of gratitude for your long service to our constituency we have arranged for you to be accomodated in a state of the art politics centre aka The EU along side your old komrat Herr Blair.

Herr Blair told me to say he is looking forward to your renunion and that the troughs are bigger there they really treat you well. Dont worry about us we will hold the fort. Mr Salmond is like a Father to us now he keeps the boogyman AM2 away so we can all sleep well knowing we wont wake up wearing Union Jack pyjamas.

Best Regards

Magic Hoops care of Kirkcaldy General Public
63

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 09:18:13
67.... I think AM2 is not actually paid, I think he volunteers and the staff at the Scotsman tolerate him like they would some child on a 'bring your kids to work day' exercise
64

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 09:20:00
#62 Rev

Yes, got a bit mixed up there. But it doesn't change anything. Your new Nat voters will scuttle home to whatever chimp Labour puts up as a candidate next time and loyally put an 'X' in their box. And, otherwise, I really don't give a t*ss if they vote Labour or the SNP. They amount to one and the same. It's just one of them wants us to live in a slightly more parochial socialist paradise, that's all.
65

Spoot,

Third rock pool on the left 26/07/2008 09:21:28
Unsurprisingly, the London-based meeja drew all the wrong conclusions from the result. Despite the efforts of the journos to put words into their mouths, all interviews with the voters that I heard or read made it clear that the underlying reasons for the outcome were:-

1. the fact of an SNP govenrment in Edinburgh;
2. the abysmal performance and behaviour of Wendy Alexander as the leader of Labour in Scotland, coupled with the lamentable performance of her predecessors; and
3. the shambles around the selection of a Labour candidate for Glasgow East.

None of those interviewed suggested that they had used their vote as a judgment on Gordon Brown.
66

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 09:23:08
#64 Jung

When the nats are sniping at spelling errors and dodgy metaphors, I suspect I might be striking a raw nerve.
67

Nikostratos,

26/07/2008 09:23:27
#59 GM,

Well at least you admit (obliquely) that the SNP at 43% votes were dwarfed by the 52% who voted for pro-union parties on a 42% turnout.

and perhaps you can explain why Alex is backpedaling on there being a general election ?. If the snp have the *confidence* to sweep all before them?

#66 Pink Sombrero

I "congratulate John Mason and the SNP on a historic and sensational win"

me i don't do bitterness life's to short.....ha ha

I.m thinking 'Independent scottish labour party'Um
68

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 09:24:34
71. There we have the typical unionist arrogance predicting the result of the next election, totally lacking in any humility from just spectacularly failing to predict the result of this one, and the typical unionist arrogance "I don't give a t-ss who people vote for" - some regard for democracy.

Unionists seem to be in shock and very bitter today.
69

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 09:25:56
74, Niko

pre-senile nonsense. Alex Salmond does not control when a UK general election is held.

But I am sure the SNP say Bring It On.

70

Magic Hoops 2,

26/07/2008 09:28:12
#73

If you collate all the voters who voted in the Scottish Elections with the swing in Glasgow East and then make an educated prediction as to how people the follow suit i think you will find this is no way a one off protest vote. The SNP bug is spreading from the North, southwards and then finally it will sweep the East. Note the pattern!!!!
71

John S,

26/07/2008 09:28:56
The good people of Glasgow East can now consult their SNP member of Parliament, John Mason MP.
72

Magic Hoops 2,

26/07/2008 09:31:31
Where is Kimba??....ive missed her stench
73

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 09:32:18
Now, when is Jack McConnel resigning his seat to take up his croney reward job as High Commissioner?
74

Magic Hoops 2,

26/07/2008 09:33:49
#81

Next year apparently....there was a problem with fitting his Trough
75

GM,

26/07/2008 09:34:45
@74
No admission from me mate, implied or otherwise. Glasgow east was not a referendum on independence, but the swing to SNP does indicate that at least some of those voters would be willing to go down that route.

Interesting that you should go down the road of statistics given *all* that has gone on in these forums since about January 2007, and the unionists still have *nothing* else to offer but stats.

Stats that have been proven wrong time and again.

You *never* seem to appreciate that spinning figures as you have done in post 74 doesn't cut the mustard.

Some examples of pro-union propanda failures -

May 2007 - despite polls and media pressure, the SNP won

the laughable - "there will never be a council tax freeze"

the puzzling support for Wendy's admitted illegal activity

Glasgow east by-election 'earthquake'

and too many more to mention.





Alex Salmond is perhaps in your own view, backpeddling from a general election, but to most other sane contributors, he simply spoke the truth - he doesn't think the result will trigger a general election.

As has been proven to date. There might be a challenge to GB, but no labour party would go to the polls at the moment when they dont need to.

76

Senga Jean,

26/07/2008 09:34:54
The sky is cloudy but it feels like full sunshine. "Oh Happy Day"
77

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 26/07/2008 09:35:36
I think that those who suggest that all people who vote SNP do not(yet) support independeance,need to remember that all voters who supported Labour and other parties do not necessarily oppose independance.It is a flawed approach to assume that all voters accept all aime of the party that they vote for.For example,do all labour voters support socialism? In the days when labour was a socialist perty I recall many voters in Glasgow voting Conservative,Liberal or SNP in general elections and labour in local elections (to keep the rents down in a Labour dominated council resulting from a first pass the post system).We know that a significant percent of Labour and Conservative voters support independance,but do not vote SNP.Thus the simplistic arithmatic used on these sites cannot inform us about the independance vote,only a referendum can do that.

The real significance (psychology) of the Glasgow East by election is that it conforms the evidence from the 2007 Scottish elections that the SNP can now compete with labour in their heartlands.Labour membership is crumbling while SNP memders are increasing.Larger numbers of SNP councillors in Glasgow and the impressive performance of the SNP government is accelerating this trend.Who holds what seat at the next elections is less important than the general trend.However,I congratulate John Mason,and I am certain that he will do a fine job for his constituents.Independance will take care of itself.It is the future in the modern Europe and I predict that more parties will eventually embrace it.
78

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 09:36:06
#75 Pink Sombrero

You don't seem to get my point. For me, personally, it's nothing to do with Unionism or Seperatism. It's all to do with political ideology. Heads of state, flags, national anthems and what cap bands the feckin navy wears are of no great importance to me. I really don't care if Scotland is in or out of the UK. The only real benefit I personally get from it is the hope that, every now and again, the good voters of England will release me from the thrall of Socialism, which, Labour or SNP, most Scots seem addicted to. Switching from Labour to SNP changes nothing.
79

GM,

26/07/2008 09:40:42
@86
"Switching from Labour to SNP changes nothing."

I think you'll find that the switch last year has changed a great many things (for the better).
80

Magic Hoops 2,

Kirkcaldy 26/07/2008 09:41:29
#86

"Switching from Labour to SNP changes nothing"

If you think sticking to the same lottery numbers is gonna yield much more fortune think again. If Socialism isnt your preferred weapon of choice then what is it?? Nationalism?? Unionism??
81

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 09:48:03
#88 Magic Hoops

Did you actually read my post? It changes nothing because Labour are a UNIONIST Socialist party and the SNP are a SEPERATIST Socialist party. Two sides of one coin. Granted Eck Salmond seems a bit more competent than any of the Labour mob and wee Nicola Sturgeon seems a bit mure human and personable than the po-faced, sanctimonious Labour apparatchiks. I'm grateful for small mercies.
82

jacquesmac,

Lectoure 26/07/2008 09:48:22
# 80
Magic Hoops 2,26/07/2008 09:31:31
Where is Kimba??....ive missed her stench

I have a theory

LEGSA Kimba = Boudica = Jackie Baillie

am I right or am I right?

answers in plain brown envelopes with £995 entry fee / donation (used notes especially welcome)
83

jacquesmac,

Lectoure 26/07/2008 09:50:55
#89

Draco, is the irony or satire or the product of a poor educashun in some rundown Scocialist sink scheme??

"SEPERATIST"
84

jamboden1,

sydney 26/07/2008 09:53:27
well done the SNP.
Just do it Scotland!
85

Magic Hoops 2,

26/07/2008 09:54:17
#89

im glad
86

Nikostratos,

26/07/2008 09:55:27
#83

why not trigger an early general election and if the snp sweep the board in Scotland. They would have a majority of Westminster MPs alongside all the snp MSPs etc etc.

Would indicate the Scottish people have chose the Independence route and come the next Scottish election..well what more could the snp ask..so why doesn't Alex bring it on?
87

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 09:55:27
#91 Jacquesmac

When you're trying to appear an edukated prat by slagging someone off about their spelling, it pays to make sure your own sentence actually reads properly before posting. Now THAT'S irony.
88

allan58,

edinburgh 26/07/2008 09:57:14
England isn't far away # 86.You could always leave if you don't like us. You're still self delusional. What makes you think English voters will influence the political allegiances/alliances in Scotland?

You sound like one of those embittered Tories who's still sufferring from a massive overdose of sour grapes because Scots had the good common sense to see through the Wicked old Witch from Finchley & her minions.

The New Tories under GB are (hopefully) about to go the same way.

I honestly don't know what this "parochial socialism" is that you're wittering on about. I suppose however it sounds good.

At least we have a choice now. You couldn't put a sheet of paper between the Tories and "New" Labour. In any case, if English voters want a re-run of the ills of Thatcherism then let them vote blue.The Tories haven't changed a bit. They'll soon realise their mistake. By then of course it'll be too late .Scots have got more common sense and that, I suspect, is the real reason for your bellyaching.
89

Magic Hoops 2,

26/07/2008 09:57:21
#90 jacquesmac,Lectoure

Legs a kimba indeed lol. Have you referred to my emotional letter to our Dear Leader at my post #69 (Kimbas favourite number :-))
90

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 09:57:21
94. Niko, what on earth are you on about. A UK general election is up to Gordon Brown to decide on.
91

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 09:57:59
97. Magic, good to see you back. We all thought Kimba had eaten you.
92