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Brown 'failed to plan for rainy day during his ten years as chancellor'



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Published Date: 05 June 2008
GORDON Brown's reputation took another battering yesterday as global economic experts strongly criticised him for failing to plan for a downturn during his decade as chancellor.
Mr Brown, who ran the Treasury from 1997 before becoming Prime Minister nearly a year ago, was said to have followed "excessively loose" financial policies that saw government spending increase during the good times, with little being set aside for more difficult times.

Britain now faces a struggle to balance its books and keep the national debt below 40 per cent of the value of the economy – Mr Brown's so-called sustainable investment rule – said a gloomy assessment from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).

It also warned the Bank of England should not cut interest rates in the short term, as rising inflation had to be kept under control. Inflation currently stands at 3 per cent – the government target is 2 per cent – and experts fear it could hit 4 per cent by the end of the year.

However, cuts in borrowing rates of 0.75 points may be needed over the first six months of next year, the OECD said.

The Bank's monetary policy committee is expected to announce today that the basic interest rate is being held at 5 per cent.

The OECD, giving its six-monthly economic outlook, said the UK was heading for a "significant downswing", as it slashed its growth predictions for this year and next year.

It said the UK economy would grow by 1.8 per cent this year – compared with its original 2 per cent prediction – and 1.4 per cent next year, down from an earlier 2.4 per cent estimate.

The OECD said government spending would have to be pared back if debt was to remain below the 40 per cent target. Its report said: "While ongoing economic weakness in 2009 would argue against fiscal restraint, the government's options have been limited by excessively loose fiscal policy in past years when economic growth was strong."

Philip Hammond, the Tory shadow chief secretary to the Treasury, said: "This worrying report confirms what the Conservative Party has been saying all along – that Gordon Brown failed to fix the roof when the sun was shining. He borrowed in a boom, leaving us with the largest budget deficit of any industrial economy. Now we are all paying the price for his economic mismanagement, with Britain less well prepared than any of its neighbours to weather an economic slowdown."

Vince Cable, the Liberal Democrats' Treasury spokesman, said: "This is truly awful news for the government. It confirms all the worst fears about a deteriorating economy, and the lack of any freedom of manoeuvre due to lax control of government spending on Gordon Brown's watch."

But Alistair Darling, the Chancellor, denied the government was at risk of breaching its economic rules – and said the OECD report acknowledged the underlying strength of the UK economy at a time of global uncertainty. He said: "Whilst, like every other country, we are facing very turbulent times, it remarks on the resilience of our economy, which I think is a tribute to what we have been able to do over the last ten years."


The full article contains 547 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 04 June 2008 9:50 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Economic indicators
 
1

Angus Ogg,

04/06/2008 23:09:37

Alex Salmond has a very good idea in putting away some of the oil money for a rainy day.

Very sensible.

So why didn't Gordon Brown act more prudently?

Makes you want to refer Gordon Brown's PR claim to be called "Prudence" to the Advertising Standards Authority as a dud bill of goods.
2

Resolutions,

05/06/2008 00:06:41
It is a much vaunted trait of Scottish character, to put something by for a rainy day. Seems that Gordon Brown was 'seduced' by the recklessness of the SE England, 'massive' and unjustified bonus schemes to remember his roots. Perhaps, if he had, he might have been in a more respected position now in the 'British' part he so woos.

The sooner Dcotland rejects this and saves its own reserves, the better.
3

Resolutions,

05/06/2008 00:07:32
Oops Scotland of course, in last line - sorry about typo!
4

Highland Silly,

05/06/2008 00:20:55
I can not believe i voted for Labour and how silly of me to do so.
This shows the inept degree of my intelligence at the lack of proper dialogue with my Rabbit.
5

Sanny,

Portugal 05/06/2008 00:29:27
I’m old enough for this to be a case of déjà vu. When Thatcher came to power, the UK was the sick, broke man of Europe and the previous Labour government had to go cap in hand to the World Bank for a hand-out. I remember the “Gnomes of Zurich” and their control of our finances. Thatcher gave us some awful, but much needed, medicine. Then of course Scotland’s oil was found and, so long as the value was hidden from the Scots, it could be used to fill in the black hole in our finances. This said at least Maggie used the money to pay off all our debts including war debts and when Labour took over there was a healthy balance of payments situation.

Ten years of Labour and it’s as if Maggie had never been. Our National debt is at record levels, as is our personal debt. Worse the cupboard is bare. Thank you very much Mr. Dipstick Brown.

The sooner Scotland gets its Independence the better. Surely after the debacle of this Labour government the West Coast Scots will see that they, the Labour Party, are the problem and vote for the SNP and Independence.
6

Richardinho,

05/06/2008 00:34:45
Add to this the scandal of PFI which is a scam of the first order.We'll probably be paying over the odds for that in the years to come too.
7

bring them on,

05/06/2008 00:34:52
Brown wouldnae smile if he won the Lottery.


If his wife's erse gets any bigger they have to look for a larger house.

Maybe that's why he doesnae smile.....
8

Maisie from Morningside,

05/06/2008 00:59:44
Did these "global economic experts" predict the global downturn or are they wise after the event like everyone else?

I suspect they're talking through a hole in their underpants - as usual!
9

Pleboid,

Oot there 05/06/2008 01:17:51
"Alex Salmond has a very good idea in putting away some of the oil money for a rainy day. "

Eh? That'll be Shetland's oil money then, no?
10

Hmm ...,

05/06/2008 01:19:29
... sorry, Maisie (9) - I am old enough, like Sammy (5) to remember when Labour were last in "power" and we had the International Monetary Fund control our economy - the alternative was for Britain to go bust, it was a condition of the loans we had to have that we followed their prudent policies.

Back in the '60s, when Wilson was PM, our economy was so bad that we were permitted to take only £50 per head on holiday with us, again because no one wanted the pound, despite Wilson's claim that devaluation wouldn't affect "the pound in your pocket". European beach resorts gave the Brits short shrift because they knew we had no money to spend.

What is it about Labour that they always need to spend as much as they can lay their hands on? "Redistribution of wealth" that's what. They raise taxes to hand cash out to the feckless and waste on ill-thought out projects that will never give a return to the economy.

Sorry, Gordon - it's time to go. Begone - and don't try to come back into Scottish politics - get a job in South Britain as a doorman or something, a job you are better suited for.
11

bring them on,

05/06/2008 01:42:39
Gordon Brown must step down

And take the weight off his feet

The man's a clown, who cannae smile

Nae use, if you ask me.


Still a wee work in progress number
12

Maisie from Morningside,

05/06/2008 02:22:39
Hmmm... I too am of an age to actually remember the 'pound in your pocket' speech
However you may also recall that prior to this devaluation there was a period when the pound was particularly strong and foreign governments were buying the "strong" sterling currency - esp Nigeria!
So we had newsreaders gleefully boasting of the 'strong ' currency one minute then suddenly there"s a devaluation and the same newsreaders are assuring us that the devalued (not weak!!!) pound was good for British exports!
With my childish mind unable to wrestle with this contradiction I enquired of my father for an explanation.
"Economists are full of sh*te" he explained.
This definition has stuck, I'm afraid.
While I agree that Labour's fiscal policies have always been incoherent at best you must agree that there's no economic theory so wild it will not produce a pack of PhD economists willing to back it up!!
13

Edward,

05/06/2008 02:29:16
Watched the BBC's programe on Scottish Oil and was thoroughly disgusted and angered at Bernard Ingrams remarks about the Scots being greedy and Tony Benn and some other labour politician making out its their oil
What came out from the programme was that Scotland has been royaly screwed for the last 30 odd years with succesive UK governments syphoning off all the oil revenue and not one drop was ever provided to Scotland
It turns out that Scotland produces more oil than Kuwait and has reserves in excess of 40 years at current oil fields
Enough has to be enough and we must go for Independence
If anyone is any doubt about how Scotland would fair I suggest they 'Google' Kuwait and see what the oil wealth has and is giving them and remember Scotland produces more Oil than Kuwait!
14

Scott Webb.......,

05/06/2008 02:40:57
He did exactly what he was told to do.....to the letter.
15

bring them on,

05/06/2008 02:41:35
The director of Hard Days Night?
16

Toddy,

Macmerry 05/06/2008 03:02:10
I grew up in the Thatcher years and although she royaly screwed Scotland, when you look back at what she achieved it has to be admired. oh and I am not a Tory by a long way. Most of us had decent pensions building up with our own employers (public or private). First thing Brown did was stop the tax credits in the pension funds and all of a sudden we have shortfalls and schemes closing to new members and the death of the final salary scheme. Then there were the stealth taxes on virtually everything. The realm of VAT suddenly covered everything. Fuel tax, road tax, insurance premium tax, airport tax, income tax, increased NI tax both personally and company, increases on beer, wine, whisky, tobacco and anything else you can think of. Of course there was the collapse of Railtrack and the £billions it cost, never mind Northern Rock, the credit crunch, spiraling food and energy costs. In fact is there anything positive he has done? I cant think of anything
17

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

, Newington 05/06/2008 03:27:16
Labour were elected to rid us of sleaze and instead took dodgy donations from sports billionaires and sold Lordships for cash.

They were elected for prudent economic policy and instead built a boom on top of the credit bubble while gutting our pension funds.

They promised to reduce debt, but spent more than they earned. Now the entire country is paying the piper.

They were elected to reform public services. Now we have schools with devalued exams; hospitals with MRSA; ambulances that never come; police who would rather let a kid drown than jump in a lake without filling out forms in triplicate; an army that goes without vital equipment; a civil service that doesn't even know when it's employing the illegal immigrants it's there to stop entering the country; local government that wastes taxpayer cash on every politically correct nonsense known to man and then some they made up themselves.

Still, apart from that...
18

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 05/06/2008 03:29:34
For Scotland not to have its own rainy day fund is unparalleled idiocy. It's why independence is the only salvation for the homeland Scots.
19

bring them on,

05/06/2008 03:33:22
#19

Unparallelded.

Even with a masters in economics, Brown should have known about the rainy day fund.
20

bring them on,

05/06/2008 03:36:31
"Slipped in Tha Back Door" Brown should resign
21

Navvy,

singapore 05/06/2008 04:29:40
#2, 5, 11,17

All correct. Brown has given Scots a bad name. Those who tak the high road to London are often seduced, but not all.

I will not forgive him for what he did to my pension. In other countries there are incentives to saving and to having pensions and that saved money is used for building national infrastructure. Not for nothing do the Asian Tiger economies have the worlds biggest savings.

This used to be a Scottish trait
22

bring them on,

05/06/2008 04:35:41
A good thread today. Plenty of stick for Brown.


The intellectual numptie.
23

Scott Webb.......,

05/06/2008 04:41:24
We need independence, but well also need a total clearout of politicians.....they are ALL bought and paid for.
That takes YOU....to wake up.
24

Scott Webb.......,

05/06/2008 04:43:04
Business runs things from behind the scenes.....it always did
25

Scott Webb.......,

05/06/2008 04:47:18
Start looking into the backgrounds of your politicians....where they went to school, what colleges and Universities.....what organisations they were part of.....what companies they worked for.
You will start to see a pattern....work it out :)
26

bring them on,

05/06/2008 04:47:45
I bet his pension is OK, eh. Looking after number 1..
27

bring them on,

05/06/2008 04:52:28
Brown will be known as the least successful PM ever.

And that takes some doing.

28

missing home,

la verne 05/06/2008 06:08:11
14 Edward wrote 'Scotland has been royaly screwed for the last 30 odd years' add another zero Edward.
Still, I can't help but feel sorry for Gordon, he has the reverse midas touch. All the better for Scottish Independence.
29

bring them on,

05/06/2008 06:12:11
We we all get new passports?
30

Jay Kay,

05/06/2008 07:18:07
Gordon Brown, the same Gordon Brown who swapped 600m of our gold for paper EURO's the same gold that on todays market would be worth 1.4 Billion, oh he is such a clever man worthy of the top job in the country.

Who, and I am being honest here is going to vote for him apart from Am2
31

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 05/06/2008 07:31:08
#10 Pleboid.

It's indeed Shetland's oil. Let SNP not forget it.

Brown has been an economic disaster, starting from when he sold off cheap great chunks of our gold reserves, right up to the 10% tax fiasco.

Anything good in the economy has been a consequence of Tory wisdom (they left us with out lowest ever national debt, Brown has now made it our highest ever), the international situation and good luck.

Good bye Mr Brown. Please.
32

Lisbon-Lion,

Glasgow 05/06/2008 07:31:35
On BBC last week there was an article that Norway had so much money from North Sea Oil & Gas revenue that they hardly knew what to do with it. It appears that Norway has invested so much money abroad that they have more investemnt than some countries are even worth.

FOR ME THIS IS SCOTLANDS SHAME.

We must be the only oil & Gas producing country in the world who doesn't get a penny of our oil and gas money. It is my opinion that history will judge the Scottish people as the most stupid people on the planet for allowing all this money to be taken and squandered by England.
33

SouthernSkye,

05/06/2008 07:45:32
People now are seeing the light and comprehending just what Chancellor Brown did for the UK.......nothing good.
he did sell of the gold reserves leaving us with the lowest reserves (i.e. a little put aside for a rainy day) of any developed nation. he did this very soon after getting his hands on the treasury and at a time when gold was at an all time low. That one single act at the start of hos 'chancellorship' should have set alarm bells ringing through the nations of the UK. But Joe Public blighthly sat on the sofa of ignorance blissfully watching the television of ignorance.

The problem for the entire UK is, unless NL do go bankrupt as a party, there is around 2 more years of this downwards spiral to go. Time for all those crafty wee MPs to make sure they fether their own nest and are secure for life (thank you very much Joe Public...sorry your life is screwed but, C'est la vie!).
34

SouthernSkye,

05/06/2008 07:47:22
OK, perhaps I used "ignorance once too many times in the prev post ;-))
35

bring them on,

05/06/2008 07:48:57
Give Brown a few years on Devils Island...

Soon be crying for his mummy.
36

Boab,

Glasgow 05/06/2008 07:55:49
I seem to remember Gordo had a pretty good balance of payments before the Iraq fiasco?

Apart from this, none of us were complaining while our house prices tripled in value or we were running up huge credit card bills. I don't remember the Tories complaining, at any rate.
37

ddmc,

05/06/2008 08:01:02
with gold at such a peak

What did you do with the gold Maggie Broon ?

oh yeah you sold most of it off for pennies, prudent my ar$e
38

bring them on,

05/06/2008 08:01:47
#37

And I would like to hear what he would say in response to your cheeky comment.
39

Honest Opinion 2,

Froggyland 05/06/2008 08:03:01
Aye Toddy (17) and others. The sleekit pensions rapist and taxorcist (new word invented)has much to answer for. Making things a thousand times worse, the nice legacy from Blair is of course the kiss of death as he prudently did his Houdini act and escaped.Anyway, it will be seen from my address that I have had to settle in a country where my meagre pension enables survival. Its actually very pleasant so I suppose I should thank that deadly duo Broon and Blair for that.
40

Bigwull,

edinburgh 05/06/2008 08:06:43
37 couldnae agree more everying was fairly rosy in the garden until that idiotic religious zealot Blair and his mentally defficient American cousin Bush with their Crusade for Democracy(what a name to pick) didn't half screw up their
41

bring them on,

05/06/2008 08:22:06
England disgrace....


Giving (or getting) caps back, no FIFA points, result removed from records.

It makes me cry.
42

Nell,

The Preservation Hall 05/06/2008 08:35:56
All those of you above who are praising Maggie "the hitman" Thatcher seem to have very short memories. What about the debacle of the early 90's when the bubble burst and thousands were out of work and in massive debt from negative equity. The woman was a complete disgrace to the UK in general and particularly to Scotland.
43

John BC,

Banff 05/06/2008 08:44:45
The media are as much to blame by giving Brown the confidence when he was Chancellor.
The reality is all he was good at was coming up with new taxes. He and Mr Personality Darling took all the credit when the economy was ok now it was a big boy who did it and ran away. Every time now they blame the world markets. No mention of the Iraq war, no mention of decimating manufacturing industry, no mention of giving away gold reserves.

The reality is they are clueless, incompetent and playing for time.
44

Dissector,

Stirling 05/06/2008 08:45:31
Previous Liarbour Govts specialised in over-taxing and overspending. New Liarbour has taken those two "attributes" and added new lunacies - over-tax, over-spend, massive waste of cash, spin everything at least three times, promote the incompetent especially prudence, rape the best pension arrangements in the EU, announce policies on the hoof for headline grabbing and, finally, leave the UK citizen so in debt that Prudence might learn how to print bank notes from Robert "E-Ba-Gum" Mugabe.
45

thinking,

Scotland 05/06/2008 08:57:12
"Whilst, like every other country, we are facing very turbulent times, it remarks on the resilience of our economy, which I think is a tribute to what we have been able to do over the last ten years.'
The only way Labour was able to do anything was because they 'inherited' a good, stable economy, something Brown had to admit when records were released.
He immediately started to do what all Labour governments seem to do, squander what they have because their housekeeping skills are 'nil'.
As for various posters' remarks about cheating Scotland out of it's oil revenues, no such thing. Scotland is part of the UK and a UK government has handled all the finances of the UK. If they were two separate countries then Scotland would have had all the expense of the full Government running costs including defence. These costs are huge and if the outrageous spending of the Scottish Executive, since devolution, is anything to go by, spending would outrun income.
46

BK,

Cyberspace 05/06/2008 09:27:59
So Labour's "Good Times" were all smoke and mirrors, and the booming exonomy was all spin. What a surprise!
47

11+failed,

the pans 05/06/2008 09:40:03
Gordon gave away our gold reserves and destroyed company pension schemes,at least for employees. "Prudently" done, of course, for our "long term" good and to end "boom and bust". Had he not made these "hard decisions" we might have been heading for a "bust". Instead, we are now heading for....Er "bust"
48

11+failed,

the pans 05/06/2008 09:47:47
44 Nell
You seem to forget what Maggie inherited from Labour.I suppose you forget that dignified son digging a grave for his mother while our scowling, proud, striking, trade unionists looked on.
49

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 05/06/2008 09:48:47
I think that most people would now concede what many of us have known for years:

Gordon Brown is incompetent!
50

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 05/06/2008 09:49:23
The only thing that amazes me is that, after all the incompetence, negligence and corruption of the Brown years 25% of people are so stupid in this country that they will still vote Nu Labour.
51

Venachar,

05/06/2008 09:51:35
What the BBC program showed last night was that politicians will take the easy route every time.
We are in exactly the same position now as we were 30 years ago. The only difference is that the duty and excise raised is now being used to pay for Iraq and Afganistan. Where are the material benefits to the UK promised by Mr Blair after invading Iraq?

Norway population 5 million, out of europe and a huge, huge, sovereign wealth fund for the future. No-one is shunning Norway.
Scotland population 5 million - SFA!!
52

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 05/06/2008 09:54:59
I feel some of the blame also rests with the News Media. Some people are soo far up the labour parties backside that they have blatently failed to report the truth. Instead pumping out spin, p1sh and drivel(hamish)to mislead the population and allow the robbery and poor policy to go unchallenged.

Then when it all comes crashing down they will jump ship and pretend they have been fighting the good fight all alone.

Parasites.
53

Paddi,

05/06/2008 10:06:03
When will Labour learn? tax & spend doesn't work. We now have one of the highest levels of taxation in the world and precious little to show for it. But according to Brown and Ed Balls "so what"
54

Alan B,

05/06/2008 10:24:01
I never understood why brown got such an easy ride from the media. Any with any understanding of economics could see brown was a very poor chancellor after his first 2 yrs.

In some ways it is the first 2 yrs that gave him his reputation.

Having said that u have to blame the people that vote for them aswell. It is not that difficult to judge that u should not be running big deficits when the economy is growing quite quickly. It is not that difficult to see much of that growth was based on a growth of personal debt rather than any improvement in the underlying economy. It was not that difficult to hold him responsible for ruining the pensions in the ultimate short term strategy for his own political gain.

55

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

05/06/2008 10:45:06
Scott Webb -

If'n you want people to give you creedence then you should stop poosy-footing around with little hints here and there.

The majority of people will think you are just another conspiracist nut if you just go on saying "oh, you must look at this" and Oo, oo, look at this web-site.

Cut and Paste, man, Cut and Paste.

Don't forget this is the general public you are trying to reach, not a fellow believer . . .
56

Tellen1,

05/06/2008 10:45:36
#56

"Having said that u have to blame the people that vote for them aswell. It is not that difficult to judge that u should not be running big deficits when the economy is growing quite quickly."

So you are basically suggesting that 9.5 million British people are stupid?
57

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

05/06/2008 10:47:51
58

Tellen1 - oh come on, it's vastly more than that, surely?
58

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

05/06/2008 10:56:02
Oh, and thanks to all the liebour voters in the Land.

We, the rest of the population, are SO pleased your man got in. Just think of the mess we would have been in under anyone else!

As some of you ARE Liebour voters I had better point out that the above was . . . . . ?

Anybody?

That's right, it was . . .

Sarcasm!

Well done! Give yourself another Gordy on the back.
59

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 05/06/2008 10:57:20
#58 I would hazard a guess that at least 20 million people in the UK are stupid. That number is certainly growing as the bleeding heart liberals continue destroying our education system by lowering exam standards to pander to useless teachers and "poor little pupils" who feel a wee bit of stress when exam day comes around.
60

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 05/06/2008 11:11:10
Gordon Brown as chancellor for 10 years had preached that he had abolished boom and bust so often that he had come to believe his own propaganda.

The boom of the last 10 years was a charade. It was built on low wage inflation, but this apparent prudence was false as the increased living standard which people enjoyed was created on a sea of credit cards, personal debt and mushrooming house prices. Real wages was not servicing the increased costs. It was not selling the family silver to live it was mortgaging the family home to live. It was economic madness.

The chancellor allowed to banking system (or at least the second rate charlatans that passed as bankers) to offer cheap credit to the naive and feckless. Brown was happy to allow this as it made the country look prosperous.

Now the chill winds are blowing through the economy. High energy prices, Low wages and no reserves. And there is nothing that the government can do to remedy matters. There is no more tax to raise; no more cash to spend.

The Unionists are quite happy to allow the Oil to be squandered. They say it's either UK oil or Shetland's oil. or that it's about to run out. We have been fed lies for 30 years. We are a different people from 30 years ago which would happily accept the lies we were told. We are more savvy now. As for the oil running out - of course it will. But the Scottish economy does not have to rely on the actual oil in the North Sea to be an economic powerhouse. We have now (particularly in Aberdeen) built up an expertise in exploiting oil wherever it exists in the world. Aberdeen is the silicon valley of the oil world, skills that are transferable to other fields including renewables, especially tidal power. Most at the forefront of the oil service sector are Scots, based in Scotland devising and using state-of-the-art technology. This can be there after the oil is gone.

The sooner Labour are voted out and Scotland achieves independence, the better for the long term pr
61

Tellen1,

05/06/2008 11:13:40
#61

I would hazard a guess that you are one of those '20 million' stupid people.
62

Huntly loon,

05/06/2008 11:13:59
The sooner Labour are voted out and Scotland achieves independence, the better for the long term prosperity of our country.
63

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 05/06/2008 11:19:57
#61 Ah personal insults: always the last vestage of the failed liberal left - witness The Supreme Leader in yesterday's PMQs calling Mr. Cameron "a used car salesaman". Frankly I feel honoured to have won the argument again.
64

Nell,

The Preservation Hall 05/06/2008 11:24:01
No. 50:- Ah so that gives her the right to decimate the Scottish economy.
65

Tellen1,

05/06/2008 11:24:11
#65

You are embarassing yourself with your double standards. Its okay for you to call 20 million people stupid but when someone responds by calling you stupid you start moaning about personal insults.
66

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

05/06/2008 11:34:44
61

Mikko - The teachers are not useless, it's just that their hands are tied up with the whole SATS Regime. When the whole outlook for an education is test after test after test is it any wonder that pupils are feeling the strain?

Since when, until recently, did Infant School Children have Homework? How much stress?
67

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

05/06/2008 11:42:39
66

Nell - If the Unions hadn't been allowed to get so Militant under Liebour in the '70s perhaps it wouldn't have been so bad . . . .

And it wasn't JUST Scotland that suffered. We all did by degrees.

I am County of Kent born and bred, we had a small but thriving Coal Industry here, but thanks to Scargill AND Thatcher (I'll give you that) it has gone - Utterly.

As a boy it was my joy to ride on a train past Betteshangar Colliery and I always thought I might like to be a miner one day . . . . but alas.

Stop blaming everything on Thatcher and the Tories and get some perspective!

Or are you going to Vote Liebour again?
68

RobynW,

Aberdeen 05/06/2008 11:43:18
After all is said and done though, Gordy will still end up with a big fat pension and a cushy job once he leaves Westminster. Not to mention the obligatory autobiography, etc. I wonder how many of your constituents in Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath have that security? Hopefully they will now realise, as is the rest of the country, that you, Gordy, are nothing but a fraudster. How the hell did he get away with it for so long though? That is the question.
69

Alan B,

05/06/2008 11:52:38
#58 Tellen1

"So you are basically suggesting that 9.5 million British people are stupid?"

Was not being so blunt. There are a number of things. for one thing it could be lack of choice for the electrate. A democratic system that effectively offers only 2 choices to lead the country.

My point was more brown has been a poor chancellor apart from the first 2yrs. He make the good decision to make the BOE independent. But should have been honest with the electrate before hand.

The basics beyond that are to balance ur budget over the economic cycle. To do that u need to be running surpluses when the economy is growing and tax revenues are higher.

But while i blame brown for being poor u also have to question the public who voted them in. (who do have an excuse through lack of choice as mentioned).

Everyone was well aware that labour after their first term and if not then after the 2nd term, were allowing house prices to rise, were allowing personal debt to rise were imposing hidden and stealth taxation, and most importantly was allowing the government budget deficit to rise and break even his own golden rule. We were also all aware that he had done a very short termist grab on pensions. There is simply not point in anyone complaining about the pension situation that the uk is in if u were silly enough to vote labour after that.

At the end of the day we have to take responsibility for who we vote for.
70

Alan B,

05/06/2008 11:54:57
#Nell

The question would be how much she decimated the scottish economy and how much it was decimated by her predesssors.

Part of the problem at that time was the sheer mess that was inherited. They inherited a situation were inflation had been up at 25%. The policy to bring down inflation "incomes policy" was in ruins with the winter of discontent. Industry was grossly inefficient. Post ww2 our productivity growth was less than our european neigbours making us completely uncompetitive.

The fiscal position was so bad that we had to go cap and hand to the imf for emergencies loans. Labour cut nhs spending the only party ever to have done so becuase of the financial mess.


71

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 05/06/2008 11:55:27
#52 Vennacher. Just a wee point. Fuel in oil-rich Norway is dearer than in the Hebrides.
72

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 05/06/2008 11:57:46
I have personally spoke to hundreds of Poles over the last 4 years. They are very like the Scots.

They have a large neighbour who historically invaded them and plundered their lands. They like a good drink. They work hard. They have been economically disadvantaged for a long time so they know about struggle. They are quiet religious. Obsessed about football.

I have found most to well qualified and here on a short term plan to gain experience of English language and save money to continue their studies.

I am sure there are many people who feel the polish show them up with their work ethic and attitude.

I have also met many Polish people who were tubes but none more than I would expect to find amoungst the Scottish population. Many of Polands spongers are actually still in poland.

Yes they claim for any benefits they can because everyone loves free money. It is our fault for having such a stupid policy that allows the UK tax payer to pay for Children outside the UK
73

Davie08,

Edinburgh 05/06/2008 11:59:12
What amazes me is how you can run an economy on rampant house price inflation and runaway consumer credit and be called the greatest chancellor since Gladstone. Brown is a one man economic disaster. However for all you Thatcher nostalgists out there remember that oil paid for a ten year party on the stock exchange which duly went t*ts up, three and a half million (at least) unemployed and the conversion from a manufacturing economy to a 'service' economy. As an American commentator pointed out at the time you can't run an economy opening doors for each other.
74

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 05/06/2008 12:02:27
With reference to the BBC.

They and their Political Correct mafia make me sick. I imagine they do consider white christian europeans fair game for critism. But do not attempt to discuss Africa or the Middle East with any sort of factual basis.

I wish the would get back to making decent TV programs not promoting their New Labour agenda.
75

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 05/06/2008 12:04:17
#74 & #76 - seemed to post on wrong discussion.

Appologies I was supposed to be posting on "attacks on poles"
76

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

05/06/2008 12:05:07
75

Davie08 - Ah yes, the 3.5m unemployed (of which I was one)- this wasin the days before Government started 'massaging' the figures.

I wonder what the rate is at the moment under the OLD method?

Does anyone know?
77

Davie08,

Edinburgh 05/06/2008 12:09:01
78 Me too for a while Neal. But they were massaging the figures even then. If I remember correctly the method for calculating the figures changed seventeen times during the Maggie era.
78

MM,

Edinburgh 05/06/2008 12:11:27
#6 Richardinho

There is no 'probably' about it. Taxpayers will be footing the massive PFI bill for many years to come, only to find that the benefit of it has all landed in private hands.
79

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

05/06/2008 12:12:03
79

Davie - Ah, ok :-) But I'm not going to write OLD seventeen times Lol.

Still, it would be nice to know . . .
80

Alan B,

05/06/2008 12:14:55
#Davie08

The 3.5 million unemployed was the early 80s not after 10yrs.

Totally agree scotland got a bad deal as we squandered our oil wealth that should have been used to transform the scottish economy not the south east.

The thatcher party when t*ts up as u say because they did not control inflation properly. Lawson started tracking the DM. He wanted to join the erm as did many of the cabinet. Thatcher did not and undermined him bring in her own economic advisor.

2 other things. 1 was they continued with the election bribe of lowering inflation before an election to create a temp boom. They did this before the 87 election and this stoked up inflation. The economy was growing at a ridiculous rate of over 4% which the economy could not sustain.

Add to that they totally over reacted to the stock market crash lowering interest rates. It was this inflation boom that cause the recession of the late 80s and early 90s.

The move to a service side economy in the post industrial age is not actually a bad idea. It is one of the reasons that the uk economy has done so well. Although brown has messed with some of the foundations of this.
81

Angus Ogg,

05/06/2008 12:18:51
# 10 Plebaid

LoL, fair point.

If only the Scottish Government had the Shetlanders Ian Clark to negotiate with Gordon Brown the game would be much fairer.

By the way, why do you not acknowledge that it is the Orcadians oil money too :@)
82

Alan B,

05/06/2008 12:21:55
#Neal

One of the biggest ways they have hidden unemployment is pushing people on to invalidity benefit.

83

Deekie fae Midstocket,

Aberdeen 05/06/2008 12:22:14
Scotland: the only nation in the world to discover oil and to become poorer for it. No wonder we have been the laughing stock of Europe for 30 years. When will we realise that by voting Unionist, we are flushing our nation down the pan?
84

Davie08,

Edinburgh 05/06/2008 12:25:12
Alan I take some of your points but as I mentioned above the 3,5 million unemployed was probably an underestimate due to recalculation of the figures. It did not for example take into account people on job creation schemes or the old YOP and YTS which were frankly even more of a non job than McDonalds. I worked for a while for the Manpower services commission ( My God the things I have done to earn a crust) and I remember the job creation schemes where people would work for a year on the scmeme be back on the dole for a year and then when they were eligible again back on the scheme.Throughout the eighties in Scotland unemployment remained stubbornly high. Certainly you are right about overheating in the SE economy but Scotland's never even got moderately warm.
85

Scott Webb.......,

05/06/2008 12:26:03
Comment@ 57 Hi Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!.....agreed, but if they don't start thinking for themselves.....they will have shown that the elites were right to think of them as the herd....and i put my neck on the line enough :)
86

BK,

05/06/2008 12:27:13
#49 Gordon certainly put an end to "Boom and Bust." Well, at least the "boom" part of it anyway.
87

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

05/06/2008 12:29:37
87

Scott - Yes they need to think for themselves but if there is nothing to prod them in that direction then all your posting is for nowt. The occaisional snippet might whet their appetites . . . .
88

Scott Webb.......,

05/06/2008 12:30:02
Example, i am a member of a wee group interested in Chemtrails. They set their newsgroup up in yahoo of all places...not smart but what can you say to people who don't see the larger picture...Anyway, i just got an email from one of them who thought it a good idea to go on holiday......below is what they have sent me

89

Scott Webb.......,

05/06/2008 12:30:23
Hi Group

Just thought I would tell you of the ridiculous situation I have found
myself in.

Ten days ago I came out to Cyprus for a 10 day break, somehow I lost
my passport just after arriving. I reported loss and attended the
British Consulate with my EU Skippers Licence which has the exact same
photograph on as my lost passport, I also had various credit cards as
proof of identity along with my bank book. I know the Consulate has
access to the passport
data base, a fact they admitted. It was obvious that I am who I
purported to be as they would of seen my passport on screen, despite
this point
and hours of messing about they refused to issue me with temporary
travel docs or a replacement passport. No explanation other than
SECURITY????????
Apparently all my paperwork had to be sent to London for additional
security checks. They say they have absolutely no idea how long these
checks will take as London is very busy and that I will just have to
stay here until the London office tells them to issue me with travel
papers.
When I explained I was only on holiday and had limited funds their
reply was "not our problem" so here I am, my flight was today which I
will now miss.
How the hell can this be right, I am bloody p----- off.

Perhaps I should put on a long black dress and a veil and apply for
asylum, I would be better treated I am sure.
90

Alan B,

05/06/2008 12:31:04
#Davie08

Not disputing that. Yes they hid unemployment with changes. Although i think from memory the changes were after the early 80s and a reason the figures came down abit. I think particularly if a mine closed they allowed the older miners to claim invalidity rather than retraining a 50 year old. This kept the headline figures down.

I do agree scotland got a very bad deal.

A question by snp to the tory treasury in the mid 90s showed had subsidised the rest of the uk to the tune of £27 billion based on 90% of oil over a period from 79 to 95. That would work out something like scotland giving 1/3 of all its income tax revenue away.



91

Scott Webb.......,

05/06/2008 12:32:21
I have advised the person in that info on last comment to let people know and thus i am doing the same thing here.
I dont do holidays myself for that and other reasons :)
92

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

05/06/2008 12:32:36
88

Meth's - (sorry):-) No SATS eh? Do you then have a similar system? Or is it another case of the Scottish being able to do their own thing? No rancour intended!
93

Buckpool Loon,

Cheshire 05/06/2008 12:33:05
People are not stupid. They can be naive and easily conned by the political snake oil salesmen and their manipulation of a mediocre media only too willing to spout the verbiage of propoganda.

Brown's ten years as chancellor wasn't a decade of prudence, more an orgy of credit that allowed him to introduce a pandemic of stealth taxes. Each designed to scrape more from the barrel of the less well off in order to fund the welfare concessions to the few who were rediculously well off. He needed to do that in order to keep the credit binge well oiled.

Meanwhile the gullible consumer didn't bother with his outgoings increasing by £1 -1.5k per year, provided the equity on his property was theoretically increasing by £20k. That covered his new car/extention/holiday/school fees etc.- he was highly geared but ten years of increased equity should see him nicely back in the black. Mr Average wasn't being stupid, he was folloing the main stream; quite a forcefull mainstream backed as it was by government, banks, markets, developers and, as alway's by the mediocre media.

So whats the lesson we should learn from this? Bit diffecult to isolate any one iss